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A search engine that favors text-heavy sites and punishes modern web design

search.marginalia.nu

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Re: A search engine that favors text-heavy sites and punishes modern web design

#491
post #280

I tried a few searches. >: none of the search results appeared to have anything to do with Javascript pipe syntax. (Which doesn't exist yet, but it's under discussion.) Google gives a bunch of highly-relevant results. >: first result is a list of books about relativity, one of which is Reichenbach's "Philosophy of space and time"; good, but there's no real information there. Second is about Reichenbach but nothing to…

To be fair, those searches are pretty weird.

They seem reasonable to me.

Re: A search engine that favors text-heavy sites and punishes modern web design

#492
post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The context matters. I'd happily read "Top 10" lists on a website if the site itself was dedicated to that one thing. "Top 10 Prog Rock albums", while a lazy, SEO-bait title, would at least be credible if it were on a music-oriented website. But no, these stories all come from cookie-cutter "new media" blog sites, written by an anonymous content writer who's repackaged Wikipedia/Discogs info into Buzzfeed-style copy…

This got me thinking that maybe one of the other big reasons for this is that the algorithms prioritize newer pages over older pages. This produces the problem where instead of covering a topic and refining it over time, the incentive is to repackage it over and over again. It reminds me of an annoyance I have with the Kindle store. If I wanted to find a book on, let's say, Psychology, there is no option to find all-…

This is just a guess, but I believe that they use machine learning and rank it by the clicks. I took some coursera courses and Andrew Ng sort of suggested that as their strategy.

The problem is that clickbait and low effort articles could be good enough to get the click, but low effort enough to drag society into the gutter. As time passes, the system is gamified more and more where the least effort for the most clicks is optimized.

Re: A search engine that favors text-heavy sites and punishes modern web design

#493
Too bad the search index is currently restricted to ASCII-only (or at least Cyrillic and Latin-2 characters were rejected as "contains characters that are not currently supported").

I love the idea definitely, and I've long toyed around with building a similar thing that starts crawling off my own bookmarks (a personal small-deep-web if you wish).

I also love the "Small Web" name: this is the first I hear of it, and it's what I've long complained about — the web today hides all of the cool gems search engines of old would have given you!

I am also a bit split on the "www" prefix restriction (iiuc, domains which do not have "www" subdomain too are dropped from the index because many of them are spammy): it might for sure be a useful heuristic, but I've advocated for dropping "www" back in late 90s and early 2000s already (one reason being that for eg. Serbian, "w" is not in the alphabet, so you can't reasonably quote it as Serbian is otherwise a phonetic-language).

Re: A search engine that favors text-heavy sites and punishes modern web design

#494

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> This sort of optimization is why simple recipes are typically found at the end of a rambling pointless blog post now. I continue to be curious about this kind of complaint. If all you want is a recipe list, without any of the fluff, why would you click on a link to a blog, rather than on a link to a recipe aggregator? Foodie blogs exist specifically for the people who want a foodie discussion and not just an ingre…

I think the complaint is that those blogs rank higher than nuts-and-bolts recipes now. It wasn't that way a few years ago. Yes, scrolling down the results to Food Network or Martha Stewart or whatever is possible, as is going directly to those sites and using their site search, but it's noticeable and annoying.

Not my experience. For a very quick test, I searched DDG for "omelette recipe, "carbonara recipe" and "peking duck recipe" (just to spice it up a bit) and all my top results are aggregators. Even "avgolemeono recipe" (which I'd think is very specialised) is aggregators on top.

To be honest, I don't follow recipes when I cook unless it's a dish I've never had before. At that point what I want is to understand the point of the dish. A list of ingredients and preparation instructions don't tell me what it's supposed to taste and smell like. The foodie blogs at least try to create a certain... feeling of place, I suppose, some kind of impression that guides you when you cook. I wouldn't say it always works but I appreciate the effort.

My real complaint with recipe writers is that they know how to cook one or two dishes well and they crib the rest off each other so even with all the information they provide, you still can't reliably cook a good meal from a recipe unless you've had the dish before. But that's my personal opinion.

Re: A search engine that favors text-heavy sites and punishes modern web design

#496
Gave it a go with two different queries. The first I chose was “amazon vendor services” didn’t get a single result about the topic.

The second query was a nation+city(in the nation). Got a lot of result that were in no way related to either.

It seems to be biased towards IT topics (based uniquely on the two queries).

Re: A search engine that favors text-heavy sites and punishes modern web design

#497

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine if you were looking for the movie.

The you'd use a different search engine. Why does everything have to be a Swiss Army knife?

That's a fair point. This engine would be useful if you need grep over internet (by without regexes), i.e. when you want to find the exact phrases. But that's a relatively narrow use case.

Re: A search engine that favors text-heavy sites and punishes modern web design

#498

As a quick test, I searched for the name of one of my favorite game series: "Baldur's Gate" (on its own, no qualifiers, properly spelled - I would usually spell it "baldurs gate" on Google, but I decided to give this one the best chance). I search for info around video games a lot, so that's quite representative of a good chunk of my web searches, and I pretty much know the top sites Google would give me for that que…

This just isn't the place to go for promotional materials about upcoming video games. It's a niche search engine for discovering stuff off the beaten path, the stuff you can't find on mainstream search engines. Some of it is junk, admittedly, and not everyone will see the point, that's fine too.

Despite what some people seem to think, it's never been meant as a google-replacement. I have never claimed otherwise.

Re: A search engine that favors text-heavy sites and punishes modern web design

#499
post #465

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends on the content. The flip side is looking up a programming-related question and getting results from 2012. I think they take different things into account based on the thing being searched.

Even your example would depend upon the context. There are many cases where a programming question in 2021 is identical to one from 2012, along with the answer. In those instances, would you rather a shallow answer from 2021 or an indepth answer from 2012? This is not meant to imply that older answers offer greater depth, yet a heavy bias towards recent material can produce that outcome in some circumstances.

If you're using tools/languages that change rapidly (like Kotlin, in my case), syntax from a few years ago will often be outdated.

Re: A search engine that favors text-heavy sites and punishes modern web design

#500
post #484

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I wasn't really planning for this to blow up like it did today. It's currently sitting at about 35% of the index size I usually aim for, so besides the stuff I can't index because it's behind CDNs, there's a lot of pages it just hasn't gotten to yet. playwright.dev is pretty low on the priority list because it has a metric crap-ton of javascript on its front page. The crawler has visited it, looked at it, and pu…

Even though some sites have a metric crap-top of js they sometimes render very minimally for certain screen sizes or mobile devices without any of the js crap. Does your crawler pay attention to any of that?

It doesn't look at what the javascript does, just how much there is.
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