1Password 8 will be subscription only and won’t support local vaults • Hacker News Board

Re: 1Password 8 will be subscription only and won’t support local vaults

#491

Post by kup0 » Thu, Aug 12, 2021, 1:12 AM UTC

dvcrn wrote: post #395

kup0 wrote: post #343

I am a 1PW subscription user and am happy with the product (however, seeing they are moving to Electron means that is very subject to change...) but Saying that "customers voted with their wallet" and chose subscriptions is disingenous Ever since they've had subscriptions they've made the standalone license page extremely difficult to find on their site. They really didn't give regular users a "choice"- they dark-pat…

I fully agree. Been a standalone user for years and a coworker asked me recently how I got the standalone license because he didn’t think it existed anymore. Even with me knowing it exists, I wasn’t able to find it on their site to send him. (Hint: you have to upgrade within the app, but only if you downloaded from their website, and only if no 1p account or trial is present) Add other dark patterns like the extensio…

Yes I also ran into the legacy extension issue. The site was confusing as hell, and it seemed purposely so

Re: 1Password 8 will be subscription only and won’t support local vaults

#492

Post by tuxone » Thu, Aug 12, 2021, 1:13 AM UTC

dkonofalski wrote: post #466

tuxone wrote: post #424

Got 1Password 6 full license for OSX and loved it. Of course I bought also the Android app. Then switched to an iPhone and bought the app again, peanuts. Then I had to start using again PCs and bough the windows full license for 1P 7. I still use 1P 6 on macOS even though the missing support for Safari sucks (that actually made me switch to Firefox!) My point is, there is literally zero added value with the subscript…

>there is literally zero added value with the subscription Hard disagree. Any security-focused software will have plenty to keep up with between OS changes, browser changes, site changes, new UI patterns, and even simple bug-fixes that you don't get from single purchases.

1P 6 running pretty well on last macOS makes your statement wrong.

The fact that you pay a monthly fee doesn’t guarantee you anything you described. In fact there are plenty of feature requests that 1P team has just ignored over the years.

Not only there is no upside but actually the missing local vault is an horrendous downside.

Re: 1Password 8 will be subscription only and won’t support local vaults

#493

Post by Seb-C » Thu, Aug 12, 2021, 1:17 AM UTC

nightski wrote: post #3

I haven't had a single bad experience with Bitwarden. I even pay for it now and still run it locally just to support them. Highly recommended if you don't want to be forced into 1Password's service.

I'm a happy and paid user of bitwarden too. On top of being open source, what made me choose it is that the desktop client downloads my vault locally in an open and secured format. So I can make an automated backup of this file wherever I want.

Re: 1Password 8 will be subscription only and won’t support local vaults

#494

Post by sngz » Thu, Aug 12, 2021, 1:29 AM UTC

mynameisvlad wrote: post #386

kup0 wrote: post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is even the best examples of Electron apps aren't great and use far more resources than a native counterpart would. VS Code is an example of Electron being "used well". I still find myself using other apps because they're more responsive. That tells me that Electron is inherently making the app experience worse, despite being used well I understand the 'why' of electron, I am just not happy with the resul…

I would argue that in general, having a lower barrier of entry to software engineering is a good thing, especially for attracting people that might not have otherwise considered it. Someone wants to build a 5 minute app for themselves and Electron happens to be the easiest way to do it? Go for it, there's nothing stopping them. If that app happens to be useful enough for others to use it, even better, that person jus…

> If the app isn't usable by you (and this is a general you, not specifically directed at you), then the answer is simple: don't use it. Nobody is forcing you to use Electron or any app built with it if you don't want to.

> If as a user your needs are not met, whether that's due to sluggishness from Electron, incompatibility from having a native-only solution, whathaveyou, then all you really have to do is wait. A competitor will come and take its place eventually; that's what the market is there for.

not the first time we've heard this argument used in different industries. I'm old enough to remember this argument about DLC's, DRMs and games being released before they are finished and get charged DLC packs to finish it. This argument falls apart when everyone starts doing it due to economic factors and complacent users/customers who blindly use what everyone else is using.

Re: 1Password 8 will be subscription only and won’t support local vaults

#495

Post by tuxone » Thu, Aug 12, 2021, 1:30 AM UTC

deadpanPotato wrote: post #473

They said that 97% of their users are already on subscriptions. I get that local vault users are disappointed, but there's an app for you and it's called Bitwarden. I think 1Password made a smart business decision. By cutting loose the need to support local vaults, they can focus more development energy on other things that 97% of their users will appreciate. It's a numbers game. That said...Electron? Ugh. I already…

This is a slap in the face to all of their long time customers. To me it looks like a risky decision more than a smart one. Note that new customers just go the subscription path because that is the only option advertised.

Re: 1Password 8 will be subscription only and won’t support local vaults

#496

Post by kgarten » Thu, Aug 12, 2021, 1:34 AM UTC

Apple user for over 20 years. I loved my powerbook 4g and loved the first iPhones. Even though they were not the first mobile nix systems (love for the n770 Nokia tablet with Debian and root!).], I felt empowered being able to hack them easily, getting shells running and recording/analyzing sensor data on them.

I feel more and more uncomfortable in the Apple / iOS ecosystem. It’s getting closed down and commodified. Even when there is something cool in terms of tech, they know how to spoil it.

Instead of dealing with Pegasus head on and starting to fix the security culture of iOS/Mac, they make our systems less secure (less open and less hackable).

I find it sad that there are no viable alternatives for non-tech users. I switched last week to a Librem 14 with Arch Linux, KeepassXC and a pixel 5 running grapheneOS, Miiband 6 with GadgetBridge, a System 76 for work. I honestly love it, there are some hiccups, yet it feels exciting, similar like switching from Microsoft to Apple did 20 years ago.

Also moved from programming objective c / swift to rust, elixir and flutter/react. That seems where the innovation happens today for me. As I work in research I have the Privilege to easy switch … we need better alternatives and I feel even stronger about supporting open source and projects and companies that care about it (pine, purism, system76, mozilla, …).

Re: 1Password 8 will be subscription only and won’t support local vaults

#497

Post by Skunkleton » Thu, Aug 12, 2021, 1:36 AM UTC

chiefalchemist wrote: post #487

bastardoperator wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was a lass pass user forever then dashlane user for about a year. I ditched them all for bitwarden and think it's easily the best I've tried.

I use Bitwarden at home. Two of my last three jobs used 1PW. I wish I had a ten'er for everytime I swore at 1PW and professed my love for Bw. I previously used LastPass but heard about Bw on HN. Saw it had Yubikey support for just $10 per year. Tried Bw. Have never regretted that decision.

Bitwarden's model is consumer friendly. I really appreciate being able to self-host a fully functional vault, even if I don't exercise that option. I feel confident that they won't hold my data hostage. $10/year is a great deal. +1 for bitwarden.

Re: 1Password 8 will be subscription only and won’t support local vaults

#498

Post by Shank » Thu, Aug 12, 2021, 1:36 AM UTC

KronisLV wrote: post #346

rootusrootus wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Especially when the product fits into $0 software so $4.99 is infinitely higher than $0. What is the competition that costs $0? Bitwarden is $3.33/mo for equivalent functionality to the $4.99/mo plan from 1Password.

KeePass ( https://keepass.info/ ) with something like Nextcloud ( https://nextcloud.com/ ) or any other solution for syncing password databases across devices. Let's Encrypt SSL/TLS certificates are free, as is Apache/Nginx/Caddy to reverse proxy Nextcloud or any other solution (if a web based interface is needed). You might also need something like ngrok ( https://ngrok.com/ ) for publically accessing the instance i…

The real question here is how much time it takes to setup this experience and how much time it takes to maintain. You could argue that the true cost is the labor cost of implementation and maintenance at your current pay rate.

Re: 1Password 8 will be subscription only and won’t support local vaults

#499

Post by yunesj » Thu, Aug 12, 2021, 1:38 AM UTC

nicolas_t wrote: post #191

Well this is the end of the road for me with 1password. I refuse to use anything that doesn't have a local vault. The potential damage if my vault is somehow is accessed is too high, if the vault is stored in the cloud, how can I verify that no one can access it? In that case I have to give access to this app with little snitch since it relies on internet access which means that if I received an update that would dis…

> the chance of attack is small

Is it? I would be surprised if attacking 1Password wasn’t a priority for governments and hackers. If the encryption used on vaults is ever broken, compromised, or buggy, users are screwed.

Re: 1Password 8 will be subscription only and won’t support local vaults

#500

Post by Skunkleton » Thu, Aug 12, 2021, 1:39 AM UTC

ekianjo wrote: post #384

slg wrote: post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This reads like that notorious HN comment about it being trivially easy to roll your own Dropbox. Our time has value. Good UI has value. How much time is saved by just using a service like 1Password versus the design, setup, maintenance, and ongoing use of a system like you suggest with all those individual pieces?

so getting to know how to do things by yourself is a waste of time?

> so getting to know how to do things by yourself is a waste of time?

Potentially. Are you looking to make a prototype, or are you trying to go to prod with mission critical data?

Most people here could trivially roll a prototype grade password manager in pretty limited time. Getting something hardened and reliable is a different story.