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One Bad Apple

hackerfactor.com

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Re: One Bad Apple

#491

Post by Kalium »

mlac wrote: post #439
skinkestek wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The law does not say that naked photos of (your or anyone else's) kids are inherently illegal, they have to actually be sexual in nature. But that depends on who looks at it. People have been arrested and (at least temporary) lost custody over their children because someone called the police over perfectly normal family photos. I remember one case a few years ago where someone had gotten into trouble because one ph…

As soon as it is used in a negative way beyond CSAM scanning, it will cause people to sell their phones and stop using apple products. If Apple starts using the tech to scan for religious material, there will be significant market and legal backlash. I think the fact that CSAM scanning will stop if they push it too far will keep them in check to only do CSAM scanning. Everyone can agree on using the tech for CSAM, bu…

It may be worth taking very seriously that you might be overestimating both how quickly regular people become aware of such events and how emphatically people will react.

Re: One Bad Apple

#492

Post by vpmpaul »

matheusmoreira wrote: post #337
hackerfactor1 wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm surprised, and honestly disappointed, that the author seems to still play nice, instead of releasing the whitepaper. I'm the author. I've worked with different parts of NCMEC for years. (I built the initial FotoForensics service in a few days. Before I wrote the first line of code, I was in phone calls with NCMEC about my reporting requirements.) Over time, this relationship grew. Some years, I was in face-to-f…

> About this time, someone usually mocks "it's always about the kids, think about the kids." To those critics: They have not seen the scope of this problem or the long term impact. The problem is people use this perfectly legitimate problem to justify anything. They think it's okay to surveil the entire world because children are suffering. There are no limits they won't exceed, no lines they won't cross in the name…

OK, I'll forfit 100% of my rights to eradicate CP from my country. Then lets say these measures are effective and CP is removed in all but name from the country. Now what do we do with the thousands of people and billions or of dollars that is being funneled into the effort? Well history shows us this answer. None of those people or authorizes are suddenly going to say well that's a wrap. Lay us off and take the budget to a more meaningful use. Nope, instead they double down and start looking for other "infringements" to justify their funding and their jobs. Ever increasing in the pettiness of the trespass until powerful sociopath realizes they can now repurpose this agency an their resources for their own power gain to remove opponents and silence opposition.

Perhaps even worse. They move on to some ML based detection that uploads suspected CP that is not in the database. Most people have no idea how bad a false accusation can destroy their lives. Even if you are 100% innocent there is already a formal government case against you. At the very least you will be compelled to hire a very expensive attorney to handle the matter for you. After all you cant risk a budget attorney with a huge caseload to handle this potential life sentence case. Not to mention that during this time you will possible be locked out of accounts,finances, put on leave from employment, banned from hiring, banned from assistance programs. Perhaps even posted in the media as a sex offender.

Re: One Bad Apple

#493

Post by fumar »

kelnos wrote: post #81
fumar wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do elected officials act as fake representatives to the people that elected them in the first place? Has it always been this way? It doesn’t matter left or right. The governing bodies should obey the people not the other way around.

I can't say this for certain, but I suspect most people are actually happy about this sort of thing; their elected representatives are doing exactly what they want.

That is interesting. I haven't met anyone who thinks privacy erosion is a good thing. We don't need to frame it as digital vs physical anymore. There is no distinction as it relates to personal privacy.

Re: One Bad Apple

#494

Post by [deleted] »

nyx-aiur wrote: post #460
matheusmoreira wrote: post #456

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You don't know if anything is or will be abused Actually I do. Governments abuse their powers all the time. They have done it before, are doing it right now and will continue to do it in the future. This is not fallacy, it is fact. Here's an example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LOVEINT The only solution is to take their power away. No way to abuse power they don't have. We must make it technologically impossible…

That's the exact same fallacy you are proposing to fix a symptom and not the problem. You want to reign in the government YOU ARE ELECTING TO GOVERN you with technology instead of real political work. Either vote different or get into politics and fix yourself. Your wikipedia link doesn't show anything regarding abuse of the governing body ALL of the examples are from private persons.

[deleted]

Re: One Bad Apple

#495

Post by mistermarcus »

You believe CP is evil. You believe privacy is sacred. You are Tim Cook. What do you do?

If this is a sincere effort, clearly Apple has failed to thread the needle. This announcement could also be a fumbled attempt to reframe what is already a common practice at the company, to get ahead of a leak. I heard from a friend who's related to an Apple employee that Apple scans the mountains of data on its servers, already, for "market research". The claims otherwise... marketing gambits.

Re: One Bad Apple

#496

Post by lizardmancan »

in theory we could accomplish great things by spying on everyone but even a small amount of abuse of such tools is unacceptable. I dont think we can stop the mass spying indefinetly which makes me think the corrupt governments and dictators are increasingly viable low hanging fruits. there will be a point where we have no other choice but to dethrone them. if we fail there we will all be like the chinese captures in a panopticon of cameras driving large behavrioal datacenters.

Re: One Bad Apple

#497

Post by mistermarcus »

You believe CP is evil. You believe privacy is sacred. You are Tim Cook. What do you do?

If this is a sincere effort, clearly Apple has failed to thread the needle. This announcement could also be a fumbled attempt to reframe what is already a common practice at the company, to get ahead of a leak. I heard from a friend who's related to an Apple employee that Apple scans the mountains of data on its servers, already, for "market research". The claims otherwise... marketing gambits

Re: One Bad Apple

#498

Post by [deleted] »

dt3ft wrote: post #379
robnewman7900 wrote: post #129

Wow, 20% of images being misclassified as CP would be terrifying. I never thought I'd say it but my next phone will definitely not be an iPhone or any device that is uploading my information to another server without my permission for any reason. Is there even any evidence that arresting people with the wrong bit pattern on the computer helps stop child rape/trafficking? If so, why aren't we also going after people w…

> If your neighbor to the left of you has videos of naked children, and your neighbor to the right has videos of people getting stabbed and tortured to death, only one should be arrested and put on a list? Why is it like this? Why are we not jailing people who enjoy watching gore?

[deleted]

Re: One Bad Apple

#499

Post by vorpalhex »

albertgoeswoof wrote: post #369
dijit wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You guys are so dismissive. How dare you look down on some random person without even taking 10 seconds to look it up. https://www.thewestmorlandgazette.co.uk/news/17327294.cctv-c... https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-22792013 Anecdotally my Mum works for Coventry City Council (though she is in events planning) but has noted complaints from colleagues about “busy work” from “fussy old people who keep asking…

One or two news reports of local councils maybe using CCTV, doesn’t back up your claim. The UK doesn’t have a super camera system used for minor crimes like you insinuate. The high camera counts in the UK come from including private CCTV cameras in the data which privately owned and are not linked together, hence the government is not using a network of cameras to monitor dog poo clean up as you claim.

The UK government explicitly lays out a strategy for provate cameras to be bought and operated with mandatory rules for police access to footage. [1]

This is on top of the cameras that ARE owned by government entities - 18+ city councils [2]. And it's expanding [3].

Why do you think it matters if they are linked together? Retaining footage and handing it over to police on request (not warrant) is a requirement. The IPA allows collecting this information in bulk (eg from cctv providers) with warrants. [4]

[1] - PDF Warning https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/...

[2] - https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-17116526

[3] - https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/uk-funds-stre...

[4] - https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2016/25/contents/enacte...

Re: One Bad Apple

#500

Post by mzsmyk »

dt3ft wrote: post #379
robnewman7900 wrote: post #129

Wow, 20% of images being misclassified as CP would be terrifying. I never thought I'd say it but my next phone will definitely not be an iPhone or any device that is uploading my information to another server without my permission for any reason. Is there even any evidence that arresting people with the wrong bit pattern on the computer helps stop child rape/trafficking? If so, why aren't we also going after people w…

> If your neighbor to the left of you has videos of naked children, and your neighbor to the right has videos of people getting stabbed and tortured to death, only one should be arrested and put on a list? Why is it like this? Why are we not jailing people who enjoy watching gore?

For the same reason why rape is a taboo in American movies and murder is not - US still is a deeply Puritan country [1][2][3].

[1]http://www.princeton.edu/~sociolog/pdf/asmith1.pdf

[2]https://davetannenbaum.github.io/documents/Implicit%20Purita...

[3]https://lib.ugent.be/fulltxt/RUG01/002/478/832/RUG01-0024788...

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