Video game developers at Activision Blizzard say they'll walk out Wednesday • Hacker News Board

Re: Video game developers at Activision Blizzard say they'll walk out Wednesday

#491

Post by runlevel1 » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 12:28 AM UTC

MattGaiser wrote: post #134

runlevel1 wrote: post #6

> Why it matters: Walkouts are a drastic measure for developers in a largely non-unionized field, a testament to just how angry employees currently are. It sends a message, but I wouldn't say it's _that_ drastic considering the demand for developers and difficulty hiring in the Orange County area.

Isn’t game dev overflowing with people? I’ve heard salaries for places like EA and people seem to make a lot less there than in comparable non game jobs.

Good point. I hadn't considered that, and my experience hiring in the OC area was for a non-game SaaS company.

Re: Video game developers at Activision Blizzard say they'll walk out Wednesday

#492

Post by pmarreck » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 12:29 AM UTC

elliekelly wrote: post #314

pmarreck wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honest question: Guys often "rib" each other, it's part of the culture among males. When you throw women into the mix and they get "ribbed" (perhaps for being "one of the guys," as it were) does this often become sexual harassment? Perhaps the culture of "ribbing" needs to go away for everyone, or at least from the workplace, but it has always been the case for me that a close friend or acquaintance typically only "r…

Women can and do participate in “ribbing” and understand things like jokes and context but sexual harassment is not the product of women misunderstanding or misinterpreting men ribbing them. The difference between ribbing and sexual harassment is pretty clear: the things that are said aren’t said in good fun. They’re said to intimidate, embarrass, and demean.

> They’re said to intimidate, embarrass, and demean

OK so, since this mentality absolutely and wantonly pervades "male culture", the real problem is male toxicity to other males which spills over towards women?

Re: Video game developers at Activision Blizzard say they'll walk out Wednesday

#493

Post by pmarreck » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 12:31 AM UTC

jjk166 wrote: post #169

pmarreck wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honest question: Guys often "rib" each other, it's part of the culture among males. When you throw women into the mix and they get "ribbed" (perhaps for being "one of the guys," as it were) does this often become sexual harassment? Perhaps the culture of "ribbing" needs to go away for everyone, or at least from the workplace, but it has always been the case for me that a close friend or acquaintance typically only "r…

> it has always been the case for me that a close friend or acquaintance typically only "ribs" you when they know you know they're not being serious. As long as everyone is in on the joke, it's fine. I've never heard of a situation where all parties agreed something was a good natured joke and it was still labelled sexual harassment. In virtually every case the "I was just ribbing" is conveyed after the fact in the s…

That's a fair suggestion

Re: Video game developers at Activision Blizzard say they'll walk out Wednesday

#494

Post by UnpossibleJim » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 12:45 AM UTC

muffinman26 wrote: post #481

UnpossibleJim wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair enough. Nadella's hard push for the return is curious to me (I'm in the Seattle area, and close-ish to the campus with quite a few friends who work in a single team, so I'm a bit myopic, I suppose). They all seem to do well remotely, and I do also. I probably do work less hours, on the whole, but I produce more... so I dunno how that factors in. I can't speak to their quality of work, though.

I'd be curious to see how the productivity data working remotely scales out for people at different levels. As a new college hire I found that both working in the office and open offices improved my productivity, often explicitly at the expense of productivity for more experienced developers (because they were spending time answering my questions). In the short term, it would be better for the more experienced develo…

Full disclosure, I'm in my late forties, so there's a definite impact on my work flow there. I honestly think that a hybrid style is the best, but I don't need to be in more than once a week (if that - usually) to be completely honest. Most of my communications are done over Slack, in office or not =[ my team is small and we just aren't that chatty of a group except on certain subjects. We're excited about Dune, and I'm sure everyone not in our team is ecstatic that we haven't gone back to the office yet. When we have a work question, we put it in the Slack channel. Stands ups have moved to Slack as well, which are great because I can reference exactly what was said and not a summary email by a "Scrum Master" like I'm in some corporate fantasy sports league- no offense to scrum masters out there. I've met some cool ones. We email our progress and it's handled and update on JIRA. I dunno, there seem to be enough tools for me.

But, if you're starting out, it's a pain in the butt. When to ask questions and who to ask. Where to get guidance about what, and code reviews have to be done in person. They're super intimidating already (for me anyway). Meeting a core group of people your age at a company is important, as well. That's where you spend so much of your time and those social interactions can't be ignored. I keep in touch with people from jobs I worked at 20 years ago. They will help your network in life and career in the future, and that is all being stunted..... sorry. Got off track. But all important issues, depending on what stage of your life/career you're in.

Re: Video game developers at Activision Blizzard say they'll walk out Wednesday

#495

Post by pmarreck » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 1:01 AM UTC

void_mint wrote: post #96

pmarreck wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honest question: Guys often "rib" each other, it's part of the culture among males. When you throw women into the mix and they get "ribbed" (perhaps for being "one of the guys," as it were) does this often become sexual harassment? Perhaps the culture of "ribbing" needs to go away for everyone, or at least from the workplace, but it has always been the case for me that a close friend or acquaintance typically only "r…

Harassment intentionally includes observers. If you do something to someone, and a third party observes it and is made uncomfortable, that is harassment in the workplace. To say "Guys are just ribbing eachother" ignores people that observe that behavior and find it uncomfortable/hostile/toxic. This is also an extremely generous description of what happened. Women were harassed, both sexually and not. Their pay was lo…

> "Women have to have thick skin" is just nonsense to not have to type "The women are harassed relentlessly".

Which is also a false translation (and thus a strawman) of what I said. The vast majority were treated quite damn well.

> It's also worth noting that the military is a toxic cesspit for sexual abuse.

I did some Googling here and found that in 2013, 0.9% of all military members reported sexual assault. I don't know how that compares to civilian life, and I'll just toss this out there, I bet this varies A TON by military branch, and I will leave it at that.

> Comparing any sane workplace to the military is a joke. Nobody should want to be like the military, including the military.

You sound like a person who would never make it in the military. I learned a lot of good things in the military: Integrity, diversity, work ethic, respect, adventure, confidence, attention to detail, and what an actual 8-hour shift felt like (which I would never see again; most work for corps done since has gone over 8 hours/day). I also had an absolute blast after work and on weekends, it was a happy coming-of-age time for me. Perhaps it was due to it being the USAF and not the USMC, but it was positive for me.

Re: Video game developers at Activision Blizzard say they'll walk out Wednesday

#496

Post by the_doctah » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 1:02 AM UTC

dougmwne wrote: post #468

Aeolun wrote: post #429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You better be able to articulate what job-relevant reason is behind your dislike I have to work with them? If they have a shitty personality that’s going to be hard. I’d much rather select for unconscious biases than hire terrible people just to satisfy some people’s idea of what is politically correct.

If you can't do better than "shitty personality," I guarantee I wouldn't hire you. On the other hand, "Unwilling to respect colleagues they wouldn't personally be friends with" is a valid reason to make a no-hire decision.

>On the other hand, "Unwilling to respect colleagues they wouldn't personally be friends with" is a valid reason to make a no-hire decision.

And how would you come to that conclusion during an interview?

Re: Video game developers at Activision Blizzard say they'll walk out Wednesday

#497

Post by deertick1 » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 1:03 AM UTC

nineplay wrote: post #310

cletus wrote: post #233

If you haven't read the state of California's claims here you should. It's the result of a two year investigation and the claims are.. shocking. I want to make a point about "culture fit". "Culture fit" in a company typically comes down to "we like you" and the reason why people like other people is that they are like them. Similar age, background, whatever. It's why Stanford grads probably like other Stanford grads.…

> I want to make a point about "culture fit" "culture fit" is one of the biggest causes of workplace discrimination and I still see it pushed in 'hiring training' as perfectly valid criteria. Things I've seen teams consider "culture" - will the candidate go to our weekly study session at the micro-brewery? - will the candidate stay after work to play multi-player games with us? - is the candidate entertained by all t…

As a compliment to this point : Tgings I'd consider valid culture fit criteria :

1) does this candidate have a positive attitude about the work that they do?

2) is this candidate respectful to the clients they work with? (E.g. a coworker of mine routinely calls our client contacts a "fucking bitch" on internal calls.

These aren't really possible to evaluate in the hiring process, but can be a big problem once theyve already been hired.

Re: Video game developers at Activision Blizzard say they'll walk out Wednesday

#498

Post by pmarreck » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 1:04 AM UTC

andrewzah wrote: post #154

underseacables wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it’s just important for everyone to recognize the new paradigm: make no comments about your coworkers whatsoever, do not complement, do not ask about their personal life, do not talk about politics, because the only safe thing to do is to be as robotic as possible.

How hard is it to not make inappropriate comments about someone or their body? It's -exceedingly- easy to not be a creepy dick to one's coworkers and fellow human beings. One only has to act like a robot if they have zero social awareness or tact.

> One only has to act like a robot if they have zero social awareness or tact.

Just noting here that the vast majority of people do not have 100% perfect social awareness or tact, and making this the bar for harsh judgment of human behavior is arguably inhumane.

Re: Video game developers at Activision Blizzard say they'll walk out Wednesday

#499

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 1:06 AM UTC

madamelic wrote: post #21

0x500x79 wrote: post #13

This seems to largely match a lot of the same things that happened with Riot Games over the last couple of years. I am hoping that these actions can help spread awareness of any issues that may be present at Blizzard and past, current, and future employees won't face the same issues. It is a long road to be traveled to get there. I hope that the current WFH situation doesn't detract from the walkout. A lot of the vis…

> is the DFEH out of line, or is the industry just that broken? No chance DEFH is out of line. The tech industry is strongly biased in the favor of white men in my opinion and video games even more so, considering women playing video games only became socially acceptable a few years ago. It's still common for men to talk down to women on video games, to the point where the overwhelming majority of women do not use vo…

[deleted]

Re: Video game developers at Activision Blizzard say they'll walk out Wednesday

#500

Post by the_doctah » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 1:11 AM UTC

fxtentacle wrote: post #374

pseudo0 wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people I know took issue with the bait and switch, as anyone watching the promotional material would have expected something quite different than Abby... playing golf. It reminds me of a similar tactic film journalists used with The Last Jedi, deflecting to complaining about fans' alleged bad behavior rather than taking a hard look at whether the criticism is merited. It's a lot easier to find a handful of the d…

Agree. The official story trailer suggested that it would be quite similar to the first game, but then it wasn't.

Also see- Masters of the Universe: Revelation