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Beyond Meat’s Beyond Burger life cycle assessment (2018)

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Re: Beyond Meat’s Beyond Burger life cycle assessment (2018)

#491

Post by darkwater »

arvinsim wrote: post #479
darkwater wrote: post #472

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The dislikable and anti-social part is, in the end, just because they make feel the rest of us guilty. Very few people would say with a straight face "Yeah, I like that humans farm and kill animals so I can enjoy a juicier dish". All of us omnivores do that, but only few ones will face that reality happily. The rest of us will just blame the messenger.

On the contrary, a lot of people are fine with it. That's why most people don't think about it much.

I don't have any real data to prove my point but I think that many people would not like to watch how a cow is killed and transformed into steak. But nobody has problem watching as someone picks apples from a tree, or how a press creates olive oil.

Re: Beyond Meat’s Beyond Burger life cycle assessment (2018)

#492

Post by tsimionescu »

sweetheart wrote: post #36

While it is not my experience at all, I understand that some folks have certain negative opinions of Beyond Burgers, and other fake meat/imitation burgers: - The texture is off - Maybe they cook strangely - Potentially less taste But the most important thing about them, and the reason I urge everyone to at least _try_ Beyond Burgers, is they require no violence against animals. This is not an argument that fairs well…

> This is not an argument that fairs well on HN in general, but the fact that we can eat something this similar to a burger but without the slaughter of living, feeling, individual being is so unbelievably important and incredible.

The problem I have with this argument is that it always seems to me to focus on the life of the animal, but not on the death of the animal.

All animals eventually die, and most natural deaths are far more horrifying than how we slaughter animals, especially in modern times (though even traditional slaughter is nothing compared to starving to death, being eaten alive by insects, being hunted and terrified by a predator etc).

So, I think that it is important how the animals are grown (factory farms are absolutely horrible, unacceptable places to live in, and should ideally become illegal sooner rather than later, regardless of the consequences on the price of food). But I really don't think there is any reason to feel bad about the slaughter of animals who have led a decent life, even if it may be shorter than they would expect in nature (the huge proliferation of their species is kind of payment for that, in a way).

Re: Beyond Meat’s Beyond Burger life cycle assessment (2018)

#493

Post by 0-_-0 »

tsimionescu wrote: post #492
sweetheart wrote: post #36

While it is not my experience at all, I understand that some folks have certain negative opinions of Beyond Burgers, and other fake meat/imitation burgers: - The texture is off - Maybe they cook strangely - Potentially less taste But the most important thing about them, and the reason I urge everyone to at least _try_ Beyond Burgers, is they require no violence against animals. This is not an argument that fairs well…

> This is not an argument that fairs well on HN in general, but the fact that we can eat something this similar to a burger but without the slaughter of living, feeling, individual being is so unbelievably important and incredible. The problem I have with this argument is that it always seems to me to focus on the life of the animal, but not on the death of the animal. All animals eventually die, and most natural dea…

I think you could make the argument that it's possible to ethically raise animals in a way where it's a good deal for both sides, as long as an animal suffers less than it would suffer in nature. If causing unnecessary suffering is unethical, then the opposite should be a moral imperative, so this simple mathematical argument leads to the conclusion that ethically raising animals should be morally superior to veganism.

Re: Beyond Meat’s Beyond Burger life cycle assessment (2018)

#494

Post by tsimionescu »

darkwater wrote: post #472
kenneth wrote: post #458

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This comment is a fantastic example demonstrating why everyone hates vegans[1]. I'm all for everyone being more aware of where and how their food is made. If you come out of it choosing not to consume certain categories, that's fantastic. But the moment you start demonizing others for not making the same choices as you, you become an anti-social and dislikable person, and one that's not conducive to building a better…

The dislikable and anti-social part is, in the end, just because they make feel the rest of us guilty. Very few people would say with a straight face "Yeah, I like that humans farm and kill animals so I can enjoy a juicier dish". All of us omnivores do that, but only few ones will face that reality happily. The rest of us will just blame the messenger.

Actually, most people throughout human history have done just that. Being squeamish about seeing animals getting killed is a pretty modern development, at least outside nobility.

And even today, most people in the world likely still participate occasionally in the slaughter of animals, as this is still routine in all rural areas of the world, even in the US and Europe.

Re: Beyond Meat’s Beyond Burger life cycle assessment (2018)

#495

Post by eptcyka »

sweetheart wrote: post #36

While it is not my experience at all, I understand that some folks have certain negative opinions of Beyond Burgers, and other fake meat/imitation burgers: - The texture is off - Maybe they cook strangely - Potentially less taste But the most important thing about them, and the reason I urge everyone to at least _try_ Beyond Burgers, is they require no violence against animals. This is not an argument that fairs well…

Given that my income is dependent on rare earths, which usually are mined by slaves, and the independence of my homeland is directly dependent on the US being a global hegemon, I've got far more serious moral issues to resolve before I'll have time for animals. Don't get me wrong, I love animals, but there are far greater fish to fry first.

Re: Beyond Meat’s Beyond Burger life cycle assessment (2018)

#496

Post by Jzush »

sweetheart wrote: post #36

While it is not my experience at all, I understand that some folks have certain negative opinions of Beyond Burgers, and other fake meat/imitation burgers: - The texture is off - Maybe they cook strangely - Potentially less taste But the most important thing about them, and the reason I urge everyone to at least _try_ Beyond Burgers, is they require no violence against animals. This is not an argument that fairs well…

I do have one valid complaint with Beyond Burgers. I am a fan of meat. I like meat. I love a good cheese burger.

And Beyond Burgers actually taste fine. Not amazing, not “just like beef” but not bad. I can eat a Beyond Burger and feel satisfied.

My problem with Beyond Burgers or Beyond products as a whole is that they STINK! Bad! When cooking. I don’t know why but cooking a beyond burger stinks up my kitchen worse than my cats litter box freshly pooped in.

Re: Beyond Meat’s Beyond Burger life cycle assessment (2018)

#497

Post by k__ »

toper-centage wrote: post #344
danShumway wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a complicated topic, with multiple responses, but I'm only going to touch on one specific aspect of it. Reducing violence in regular farming is an admirable goal that people should strive towards. It's also worth talking about the environmental costs of ingredients like palm oil, and it's worth talking about the human costs of products like cocoa. I don't mean to diminish any of that at all, it's all worth pa…

There was a post of the front-page of reddit a few days ago saying that most Americans are lied to about the fish they are buying in restaurants and supermarkets. I think it hilarious when people like me, urban dwellers, tell me to my face they only buy meat from some small butcher because they only trust him, or some variation of that story. Truth is, we have no idea where our food comes from, labels lie, and seller…

I don't know about the whole world.

But in the small town I grew up, the butcher would buy live animals and kill them in the backyard.

You could even come and watch and he would tell you where he bought it then go to the farmer and look at the animals.

Re: Beyond Meat’s Beyond Burger life cycle assessment (2018)

#499

Post by hawos »

dcolkitt wrote: post #76
sweetheart wrote: post #36

While it is not my experience at all, I understand that some folks have certain negative opinions of Beyond Burgers, and other fake meat/imitation burgers: - The texture is off - Maybe they cook strangely - Potentially less taste But the most important thing about them, and the reason I urge everyone to at least _try_ Beyond Burgers, is they require no violence against animals. This is not an argument that fairs well…

I guess the difference would be though, that without the demand for meat, those cows would likely never have lived at all. 99%+ of all cows alive are used for human agriculture. From the perspective of any living creature, I generally think of existence as a positive good versus non-existence. I know I certainly would rather come to a violent death at a young age than have never been born at all. I think there's a pl…

This argument comes up almost every time and it has never made any sense to me. Yes, you would rather live than never have been born. That's because you're alive right now, you can have and express that feeling. Someone who doesn't exist will not care even in the slightest, because they can't.

Re: Beyond Meat’s Beyond Burger life cycle assessment (2018)

#500

Post by tsimionescu »

atweiden wrote: post #319
tomcam wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well... look up things like “cow eating chicken” or “deer eating bird” on YouTube. Not saying it’s common, but “never” is perhaps too strong a word. And of course I really meant it in a larger sense, not the direct ruminant/person relationship.

In the past, I’ve dabbled with ento-vegetarianism — i.e. eating insects — but still walked away from it feeling disgusted with the idea people breed these insects only to put them to death inside gas chambers. I would object to farming alligators on the same grounds. Even if the thing is effectively a living dinosaur guaranteed to eat you alive in the wild, there’s something diabolically evil about “growing” them for…

This is such an untenable moral ground... The death we offer animals is orders of magnitude better than nature subjects them to, almost without exception.

If we could offer them a better life as well, as we once did, I would have 0 moral qualms about our meat eating.

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