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Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop

regulations.gov

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Re: Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop

#491

Post by lioeters »

joshstrange wrote: post #368
lioeters wrote: post #357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That reminds me.. On macOS, the default application to open files with the .html extension is Safari, which I found is impossible to change. A tiny thing but it still makes me angry that someone at Apple intentionally removed my ability as a user.

You might want to check again. I just checked and mine is set to (and works with) Chrome. Right click an HTML file and click "Get Info". Then look for the "Open With:" section and select your prefered browser. Then click the "Change All.." button. I just tested this with `echo "Hello World" > test.html` and then double-clicked it in Finder and it opened in Chrome.

Huh, you're right - I just did what you described, and was able to change the default application for .html files. Weird! I could have sworn I did the same thing a few times, and it kept reverting back to Safari.

Apparently this was an issue with the user, not the OS. My bad.

EDIT: Actually, I remember now that I had to use duti to change this from the command line.

https://formulae.brew.sh/formula/duti

Re: Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop

#492

Post by mrtksn »

tekknik wrote: post #488
mrtksn wrote: post #453

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only problems here are the use of UI that mimics the native one and opening the App Store without users intent. It's actually a good idea to ask the user for feedback internally, a lot of low star reviews are bug reports or help requests that wouldn't help anyone(those who don't have the app yet wouldn't know how relevant that issue is for them and the developers won't have a channel to communicate and help the u…

> It's actually a good idea to ask the user for feedback internally, a lot of low star reviews are bug reports or help requests that wouldn't help anyone But importantly ask the user once, and only once, do not force the user to leave a review. Doing so will lead to more one star reviews along the lines of “wouldn’t stop asking for a review” Also I immediately hate any app asking for a review. It may be useful for th…

That's really about the relationship with the user and timing of the request. The best practice is to ask user for a favour right after something good happens and they get value from your app as they will be glad that this app exists. You first give something to the user and ask the user to give you something back later, like "If you like the app please give us a review, it helps a lot" request. It's not a coincidence that all the successful YouTubers ask for a like and subscription if you like the video.

Interrupting a user action on the other hand, asking for a review over and over again are extremely annoying and can easily backfire. For the official review UI, Apple enforces "2 times per year per user per app" restrictions but if you annoy the user enough through your self made review request dialogs, they can get angry enough to find their way into your App Store page and give you 1 star review.

Forcing the user do something, trying to coerce them into a 5 star review in order to use the app backfires easily.

Re: Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop

#493

Post by anoncake »

shkkmo wrote: post #426
anoncake wrote: post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As long as it doesn't mimic the browser. (Another reason why user agent strings and other ways websites can identify the user's browser are a bad idea).

It doesn't matter if it mimics the browser. If you are trying to stop the browser from protecting the user as intended, it is a dark pattern, regardless of how well you camoflage the attempt.

In principle yes. But why would you imitate the browser if not to mislead the user? And who wants to mislead the user but has qualms imitating the browser?

Re: Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop

#494

Post by Sophira »

ryandrake wrote: post #322
crmd wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s fun to imagine the implications of dramatically raising the standard for commercial speech, such that statements which intend to mislead are prohibited.

I’d argue that a simple law “companies may not lie to people,” with wide latitude for judges to define lying, would instantly and massively upend business for the better.

It would never get passed, though. The government relies on being able to force companies to lie to people for things like criminal investigations and so on.

Re: Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop

#495

Post by inetknght »

max_ wrote: post #459
inetknght wrote: post #392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is absolutely a failure of regulators to regulate. It's not only a failure of regulators. Designers of the tech are doing it because it's legal. It's legal because regulators aren't enforcing laws in ways conducive to modern tech.

Look at GDPR. Regulators came in but we just ended up with disgusting pop ups and now legal over head for web developers.

Disgusting pop-ups are a side effect that help to demonstrate the problem. That's not the fault of GDPR. That's the fault of companies that (think they) are outside of the jurisdiction of GDPR.

Re: Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop

#497

Post by suifbwish »

smolder wrote: post #263
suifbwish wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Paying for news in 2021 is a lot like paying for porn in 2021. Who does that.

People who want quality journalism pay for it. It comes up in the comments here a lot, how journalism has gotten lazy/bad because of the lack of money in doing it well. The solution is to pay those doing it well.

The problem is anyone can make a blog and there are a ton of good writers. The media used to be an exclusive club like Hollywood but now anyone can make their own news blog so there’s nothing special about NY times or any of the others except their name and possibly some unique information sources from their contacts. I have read many small news blogs that are better written than the major news outlets. They also don’t choke you down with intrusive ads and pop ups and give you paywalls just to read their version of the same story being reported on other blogs for free. Their days are numbered to be sure.

Re: Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop

#498

Post by ChrisMarshallNY »

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #295
thraway123412 wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure. I think we mostly stand on the same line here. I just tend to take hard stance against anything I find user hostile. Nagging, dark patterns, exploiting addictions, attempts at leeching personal information, lock-in, etcetra will quickly put you on my no buy list. I think those things are evil at worst and a waste of time and resources (in a global, zero-sum way) at best, and long term we'd be better off if ever…

Well, I did send them feedback, and pointed at the OP.

And got a response that made absolutely no sense at all, so I suspect their CRM is staffed by ‘bots.

Re: Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop

#499

Post by elliekelly »

bobmaxup wrote: post #354
elliekelly wrote: post #293

Well it’s quite clear that none of the commenters so far have read the document they’re commenting on and almost none of them seem able to distinguish between “software” and the internet. And I can’t say I blame them. I know the fenty website isn’t software but what about facebook and amazon? I don’t really consider them software but I suppose most of their users access the site(s) through iOS and android apps which…

Why is a website not software?

You know, I really don’t know! I guess I would consider them documents - akin to a pdf with javascript enabled or an excel file that uses macros. But perhaps that’s a dated point of view?

Re: Request for comments regarding topics to be discussed at Dark Patterns workshop

#500

Post by judge2020 »

w7 wrote: post #476
judge2020 wrote: post #437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One other interesting interaction I found was that the org can seemingly tie certain setting to your Windows activation key. I've been using an Education license to W10 on my school laptop and it has "Some of these settings are hidden or managed by your organization". https://i.judge.sh/heavy/Sunburst/ApplicationFrameHost_nhjT7... https://i.judge.sh/stupid/Derpy/ApplicationFrameHost_G2GR6fW... https://i.judge.sh/blin…

Are you sure this isn't related to any GPOs set by yourself? I remember the same thing happening on my Windows 10 Edu install when I setup GPO's to disable start menu internet search, telemetry, tracking, Cortana, etc.

This is after a couple reinstalls, so if it is then maybe there’s some sync going on since I use a MS account to sign in.
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