Germany pauses AstraZeneca vaccinations as a 'precaution' • Hacker News Board

Re: Germany pauses AstraZeneca vaccinations as a 'precaution'

#491

Post by kgabis » Tue, Mar 16, 2021, 8:22 AM UTC

krzyk wrote: post #460

geff82 wrote: post #389

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's not forget that the German government resorts to "alternative facts" since the pandemic began just as they see fit. When we had nor masks available last march, they said "masks are useless" two months later they were mandatory "because they are the best thing we have". Recently, a post by the government on Facebook said "AstraZeneca gave us one of the best vaccines ever" just as people started to cancel their a…

> When we had nor masks available last march, they said "masks are useless" two months later they were mandatory "because they are the best thing we have" Wow, this is exactly how the masks thing played out in Poland. I wasn't aware that this "makes are useless" followed by "masks are mandatory" (with Poland together with a ban on selling them on the biggest platform, big like Amazon is in the US - Allegro). And now…

I had to double check that I'm reading about Germany, not Poland.

Re: Germany pauses AstraZeneca vaccinations as a 'precaution'

#492

Post by ppf » Tue, Mar 16, 2021, 8:52 AM UTC

oivey wrote: post #468

ppf wrote: post #456

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would love to have a choice in determining whether the various risks are worth it for me, but my government has insisted on shutting all "non-essential" businesses, and only lifted a 3-month "stay at home" order last week.

That’s not really the same thing since an individual who, for example, goes to large gatherings also endangers others by making essential activities like going to the grocery store more dangerous for everyone. Besides that, wider spread of the virus increases the odds of dangerous mutations that make the vaccine less effective or the illness more severe. More spread also risks hospital overloads, which will hurt the…

How exactly will staying at home "for a few more months" stop a virus mutating forever? It's not that bad, we have to live with it. Viruses mutate all the time.

I'm not sure what your point is with the apparent difficulty of understanding the risks of a new vaccine. Are you saying "it's hard, so just trust what the authorities tell you"?

Re: Germany pauses AstraZeneca vaccinations as a 'precaution'

#493

Post by midoBB » Tue, Mar 16, 2021, 9:16 AM UTC

andyjohnson0 wrote: post #115

throwaway0a5e wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. You care if people die on your lawn. So you give out medication, do scans, etc. so that if people die they do it on someone else's lawn. It's ass-covering all the way down.

> You care if people die on your lawn. I don't know how you know that. Given the significant time and effort required to become a doctor, isn't it at least as likely that they are motivated about people not dying on any lawn?

A doctor is a job like any other job to be honest. Most people are in it to make a better life for themselves not to think about other people.

Re: Germany pauses AstraZeneca vaccinations as a 'precaution'

#494

Post by amai » Tue, Mar 16, 2021, 9:38 AM UTC

yread wrote: post #114

I've mentioned it in a comment in the previous thread but it's not completely unexpected and with no causal link. Adenovirus induced blood coagulation problems are known: Adenovirus-induced thrombocytopenia: the role of von Willebrand factor and P-selectin in mediating accelerated platelet clearance https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S000649712... You can see the number of reported cases across Europe…

So all other vaccines based on Adenoviruses should have the same side effect:

- Johnson & Johnson (USA)

- Sputnik V (Russland)

- CanSino (China)

Re: Germany pauses AstraZeneca vaccinations as a 'precaution'

#495

Post by Arnt » Tue, Mar 16, 2021, 9:59 AM UTC

hef19898 wrote: post #475

Arnt wrote: post #457

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That begs the question: For which kind of medicine is there a reason to believe that they may cause anything even close to that?

Contagan, which is part of the reason why we have the drug approval process we have. And ever since, we didn't have anything comparable. At least not that I remember.

I don't think that answers the question. The question was "for which kind of…". Naming one specific past product doesn't answer that, because surely you don't mean that no future candidate warrants can pose similar risk.

Contergan (thus spelt) is thalidomide, BTW. Thalidomide is the name of the active agent, which is used in products named contergan (as well as several other names).

Re: Germany pauses AstraZeneca vaccinations as a 'precaution'

#496

Post by Frypa » Tue, Mar 16, 2021, 10:24 AM UTC

alecco wrote: post #294

Frypa wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. I've lived in both Germany and UK and from my humble experience with both the government and the health standards, I think it's more likely the UK/AZ are downplaying this. It could be that they are right and the impact is minimal given that millions of people have been vaccinated. But I do believe the german version here more. The tory government can't be trusted.

Are you saying the NHS is complicit in hiding deaths due to vaccines?

Where did I mention the NHS? I'm referring to the government downplaying the impact of the vaccine. Which could be true, because millions of people got the vaccine and only a few had the clot issue. But I would rather believe the german version on this.

Re: Germany pauses AstraZeneca vaccinations as a 'precaution'

#497

Post by ramphastidae » Tue, Mar 16, 2021, 10:39 AM UTC

blub wrote: post #473

geff82 wrote: post #389

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's not forget that the German government resorts to "alternative facts" since the pandemic began just as they see fit. When we had nor masks available last march, they said "masks are useless" two months later they were mandatory "because they are the best thing we have". Recently, a post by the government on Facebook said "AstraZeneca gave us one of the best vaccines ever" just as people started to cancel their a…

Every country in the world except South Korea, HK, China and Taiwan failed to recognise the importance of masks at the beginning only to later change their minds.

No. They willfully misrepresented their importance so that civilians didn’t buy them before the hospitals could. They were unprepared to respond to the increase in demand due to their complete incompetence. Anyone using a shred of logic saw through the “masks don’t work” insanity.

Re: Germany pauses AstraZeneca vaccinations as a 'precaution'

#498

Post by tinus_hn » Tue, Mar 16, 2021, 10:42 AM UTC

spfzero wrote: post #449

tinus_hn wrote: post #436

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Suspending vaccinations for side effects that happen in 1 in 300000 cases is not medically reasonable. Even if all these cases are due to the vaccine, not vaccinating gives a worse result than vaccinating so it’s the dumb thing to do. Which is what WHO and EMA are saying. But now that there’s panic, they’re not relevant anymore.

When was the WHO ever relevant wrt Covid 19 though? Their advice has been contradictory. They gave guidance before knowing whether masks would help, and later had to change it. They gave guidance about the transmissibility of the virus, and then changed it. Not knowing whether something is true does not stop them from speaking with authority. To put icing on the cake, they perform a puppet show for the CCP and then d…

> They say a lot of definitive things without knowing anything definitive.

As opposed to who? I see tons of scientists proclaim things as ‘proven’ which later turn out not so true after all.

Re: Germany pauses AstraZeneca vaccinations as a 'precaution'

#499

Post by mam2 » Tue, Mar 16, 2021, 10:44 AM UTC

geff82 wrote: post #389

2ion wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a medically reasonable response that solicits snarky remarks, it's the complete retardation of the official covid response so far, and even reasonable decisions just are landing on a pile of steaming crap now. - billions per week of half assed lockdown vs a few billion more for high quality timeley vaccine delivieries of the good stuff --- of course they chose the lockdown - open schools as if nothing happen…

Let's not forget that the German government resorts to "alternative facts" since the pandemic began just as they see fit. When we had nor masks available last march, they said "masks are useless" two months later they were mandatory "because they are the best thing we have". Recently, a post by the government on Facebook said "AstraZeneca gave us one of the best vaccines ever" just as people started to cancel their a…

They didnt say its useless because it was true but because they wanted to reserve them for healthcare people. They did the same in France.

I mean some people were looting pharmacies for chloroquine so lying at that point on masks is almost a security issue..

Re: Germany pauses AstraZeneca vaccinations as a 'precaution'

#500

Post by drran » Tue, Mar 16, 2021, 10:44 AM UTC

severino wrote: post #364

TheCoelacanth wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But if these reactions are a result of the vaccine, it has to be at an extremely low rate of people vaccinated. Even the small rate of death from COVID for young people is going to be higher than that risk.

> Even the small rate of death from COVID for young people is going to be higher than that risk. But it doesn't mean that you will surely get COVID if you refuse to get a shot. Also, some people claim the vaccines are not very effective against some variants such as the South African one. So it means you can get vaccinated, suffer some serious side effects, and once you are recovered, get COVID.

Can you use numbers for probabilities, then multiply them by population, please? 4000 people died between your message and mine.