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Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

reuters.com

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Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#491

Post by mhh__ »

abakker wrote: post #208
mhh__ wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pragmatically, I don't care, because no one who owns a Tesla is using it as their sole access to a computer (similarly with playstation). Many people now only use an iPad or iPhone these days. In an ideal world I would force them (I probably wouldn't for a Tesla because diy software on a car...) to have some basic ability to load programs.

Ah, the software Robin Hood, here to help the little guy understand how to best use their own computer... This is such a HN comment it hurts. Many people use iPhone and iPads as their primary devices because everything is easy and it all works. side loading apps is just not a concern that people outside of HN even have. This lawsuit is about Epic trying to not pay the same fees as everyone else not some giant ethical…

And? They don't know any different or better, we don't make policy on anything based on people like that.

As I've said elsewhere, this is about tail risk not tomorrow.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#492

Post by ksec »

dd36 wrote: post #94
aboringusername wrote: post #11

It feels a bit hypocritical when Apple laughs at FB for complaining about their new tracking pop-up yet when the shoe's on the other foot and Apple may actually have to compete on its own platform they double down and defend their right to be judge, jury and executioner. Apple competing with third party app stores on iOS is going to be amazing. No computer platform should be allowed to prevent sideloading or other st…

Why does there need to be multiple app stores? That sounds terrible. Apple just needs to stop demanding huge chunks from app revenue.

There are multiple argument in this case and it seems everyone are mixing things up. Like Multiple App Store, and 30% cut are different issues. There are people who simply want to access to iPhone without going through Apple. Which is currently the Jury, Judge and executioner. Cutting the 30% you would still have to go through Apple.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#493

Post by bombela »

the_af wrote: post #446
BrianGragg wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is the choice is taken away from you though. Just like he said with the game market. If you want to play Game A, you go and download/install Game A's publishing app store. If you want to then play Game B, rinse and repeat. You will be forced to use so many different app stores and won't have a choice to NOT use their app store "IF" it progresses like it has on the desktop. No proof it will/won't either.

There are alternative stores for the same game on the desktop. A trivial example is that some games can be installed directly by downloading a file from the developer, or via Humble Bundle, GOG or Steam. So this business model is possible. And it's the friendliest to end users, too.

Many standalone downloads in fact come with the publisher app store. Thay must runs in order to start the game. The end result is the same. And the store will update the game anyways, often re-downloading the equivalent of half the game (we are talking 50GB scale here).

Sometimes you can use another publisher app store. Which will in fact start another app store upon starting the game. In turn starting the game. And the game itself will also ask you for a game studio account. So you need 2 app store and 3 account to play the game. And I am talking about single player game here.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#494

Post by lowbloodsugar »

Let's start with the obvious issue: Apple does not sell the most phones. It does not have the most phones on offer. It is not a majority, let alone a monopoly.

Now the less obvious issue: I like what apple does and I am prepared to pay for it.

I agree with those arguing for consumer choice, but I come to the exact opposite conclusion, and find those others hypocritical. I want an option to have a locked down environment. I want to have the choice to buy an Apple product. Given the choice between the Android system or the Apple system, I choose Apple. More people choose Android.

The argument that we should use "consumer choice" to remove this choice from me, and instead to demand that every business must make the world look like Android users want, is not logical.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#495

Post by Wowfunhappy »

adamdusty wrote: post #474
dpkonofa wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't buy Amazon Prime through the app. What people are referring to is the fact that existing subscriptions are allowed to renew without the 30% cut. People are misframing that as an exception for Amazon even though there are several platforms in the same situation that already benefit from the same policy that Amazon now agrees to.

I figured you were right, so I just signed up for prime.. through the app, and it didn't use the play store payment system, so Google isn't taking a cut. Again, I have no idea what is possible on the Apple version, but I have subscriptions on other apps that go through the play store payment system. I'm not an expert on app store policies for payments, but I don't use any other apps that have subscription payment tha…

I'm pretty sure on the Play Store, only games are required to use Google's payment method. (Others can optionally choose to of course.)

On iOS though, apps need to use Apple's payment system for any digital good. Unless you're an Amazon Prime member renting a video.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#496

Post by Terretta »

CivBase wrote: post #293
dubcanada wrote: post #184

I can hardly wait to use Amazon App Store to install Amazon and then open up the Epic Game Store to install random game and then open up EA Game Store to install random game and then open up Facebook App Store to install Facebook and then open up the Apple App Store to install the Blizzard App Store to install Hearthstone and then go back to the Apple App Store and update the Blizzard App Store so I can get the lates…

> My gaming computer is already filled with like 8 different app stores each completely different then the other and a variety of privacy/security issues on each. Do you honestly think this is a worse scenario than having to buy all of your apps/games through Microsoft's app store? Can you imagine using macOS without homebrew because everything has to come from Apple's app store? Can you imagine using Ubuntu without…

> everything has to come from Apple’s app store?

See SetApp for MacOS and for iOS:

- https://setapp.com/

- https://setapp.com/how-it-works

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#497

Post by 015a »

BrianGragg wrote: post #214
SCHiM wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You install those yourself you know. I'd rather have a choice than not. I feel your pain in the sense that that I think user UX will take a hit, but I think that's less important than breaking the monopoly of the current app store. For example, I can't find apps with pornography or other types of things the high overlords at apple or Google have deemed inappropriate for me to have. That's bad. Apparently apps like Ma…

The problem is the choice is taken away from you though. Just like he said with the game market. If you want to play Game A, you go and download/install Game A's publishing app store. If you want to then play Game B, rinse and repeat. You will be forced to use so many different app stores and won't have a choice to NOT use their app store "IF" it progresses like it has on the desktop. No proof it will/won't either.

As opposed to Developers not having the choice to distribute their own app stores?

There is no solution to this problem that benefits everyone perfectly. There are only solutions which are better than the solution we have today.

Actually, there is one near-perfect solution; Apple reduces their cut to ~5% and stops enforcing their insane rules. But that's not happening.

You, and many others in this thread, are blaming Epic, Steam, Blizzard, etc. That's fundamentally flawed thinking. All of this is Apple's fault. 100%. If the government forces Apple to destroy the UX of iOS, its because of actions Apple took which forced their hand. There are actions Apple could take which would abate this. They aren't taking them. You should not be mad at developers; you should be mad at Apple.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#498

Post by bombela »

tomc1985 wrote: post #488
the_af wrote: post #446

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are alternative stores for the same game on the desktop. A trivial example is that some games can be installed directly by downloading a file from the developer, or via Humble Bundle, GOG or Steam. So this business model is possible. And it's the friendliest to end users, too.

When things work that way, then great! But a number of high-profile publishers (Rockstar, Ubisoft, EA) force you to use their app platform even if you purchased the game on Steam. I bought Far Cry 5 on Steam, and running it first launches Ubisoft's launcher, which usually needs to update (why????), then I can launch the game. GTA Online freebie in Epic Store, first has to start Rockstar Social Club (which also usuall…

At this point I barely play anymore. Because with all the intermediate updates and transient failures, it takes longer to start the game than the time you would spend casually playing during a week evening.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#499

Post by yellowapple »

bombela wrote: post #493
the_af wrote: post #446

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are alternative stores for the same game on the desktop. A trivial example is that some games can be installed directly by downloading a file from the developer, or via Humble Bundle, GOG or Steam. So this business model is possible. And it's the friendliest to end users, too.

Many standalone downloads in fact come with the publisher app store. Thay must runs in order to start the game. The end result is the same. And the store will update the game anyways, often re-downloading the equivalent of half the game (we are talking 50GB scale here). Sometimes you can use another publisher app store. Which will in fact start another app store upon starting the game. In turn starting the game. And…

> Sometimes you can use another publisher app store. Which will in fact start another app store upon starting the game.

Not saying this doesn't ever happen, but I've used Steam for more than a decade now and not once have I seen that happen, ever.

Yes, some games have separate launchers, and yes, sometimes these have support for their own separate accounts and mod loaders and such, but not once have they actually been full-blown alternative app stores.

I don't buy very many modern AAA titles, though, so that might be part of it. Still, of the ones I do buy, none of them have installed some alternative store.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#500

Post by lowbloodsugar »

zionic wrote: post #340
cesarvarela wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think if you open up what you want you lose the security and convenience that would make you stick with Apple too.

I doubt any significant volume of people who sell their iPhones and go android if Apple allowed other app stores.

But the reverse is true. If there were only Android like phones, with shitty malware, and battery issues, and fifty different app stores for any given genre, and Apple launched the iPhone, millions would jump ship to Apple.
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