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Stripe bans Trump campaign

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Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#491

Post by philliphaydon »

ashtonkem wrote: post #473
cblconfederate wrote: post #136

I m sorry but all this concerted action feels (from afar) a lot like "if people don't vote the way we want, we re just gonna have to force them". It's not about overreach, but companies are not political entities, and reversing this relationship is a self-defeating travesty And if they are doing it for cheap popularity points -- well trump may be gone in a week, but his voters won't leave. this just reinforces mistru…

The irony of this is that you’re so close to being right, but you’re focusing on the wrong group. On Wednesday an armed mob literally rushed the Capitol because people didn’t vote the way they wanted them to, with the intent to just force them. It might end up being a “self-defeating travesty”, but only time will tell. But you seem more worried about a virtual “mob”, which frankly seems insanely out of touch at the m…

> armed mob

I donno if I'm just blind but I keep hearing 'armed' but I haven't seen any photos of the mob carrying guns or baseball bats as claimed by the media.

The only photo that showed anything was the guy climbing over the seats with zip-ties which were apparently taken from a bag left by a police offer?

Not saying you're wrong just feel like the photos / videos, vs what people are saying, seem to contradict each other.

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#492

Post by freeone3000 »

eternalban wrote: post #133
awat wrote: post #64

Not to be reductionist but I don’t see this as a totalitarian issue. This is a free market decision. $Company decides to sever ties with another organization. That choice can be good, bad, reactive, overreactive, misguided, etc but it’s still a market participant choice. Market remains open for other market participants to make other choices.

If alternative chat, payment, etc. are prevented from being created, that is not a "free market" decision. This smells like a politically aligned cartel, with key companies enjoying de facto monopoly positions in effect legislating what is and what is not acceptable. Right now, we haven't heard from ISPs. The entire suite of services that are controlled by the monopoly FANGs can be recreated, including clouds and clo…

It will likely be pleasant for the vast majority of people, who have no objectionable views one way or the other. It might even be better, not having to deal with the constant disruption.

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#493

Post by tayo42 »

6gvONxR4sf7o wrote: post #182

The debate here seems like fuel for antitrust issues. A single company deciding not to do business with someone (over actions, not innate stuff like protected classes) should be fine, but when you let them get to be a backbone service, then issues surface like those discussed by everyone here. If google, for example decided to stop surfacing trump stuff in results, that could be a real issue. Not because it’s google…

What your missing is they are advocating for violence against people. Why is it is an issue to disrupt that?

No one is removing groups that say taxes should be lower. They are distancing them selves from a groups whose core policy is now attempt to violently overthrow the government because they lost an election. If I started discussing on this site how to kill government officials, I'd be banned pretty quick.

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#494

Post by aww_dang »

eternalban wrote: post #133
awat wrote: post #64

Not to be reductionist but I don’t see this as a totalitarian issue. This is a free market decision. $Company decides to sever ties with another organization. That choice can be good, bad, reactive, overreactive, misguided, etc but it’s still a market participant choice. Market remains open for other market participants to make other choices.

If alternative chat, payment, etc. are prevented from being created, that is not a "free market" decision. This smells like a politically aligned cartel, with key companies enjoying de facto monopoly positions in effect legislating what is and what is not acceptable. Right now, we haven't heard from ISPs. The entire suite of services that are controlled by the monopoly FANGs can be recreated, including clouds and clo…

I'm inclined to agree with you. I realize that the term has been abused to the point of meaninglessness, but Fascist economics is defined by corporate monopolies in symbiosis with the state.

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#495

Post by skynet-9000 »

chrononaut wrote: post #424
doubleunplussed wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly? Breaking the law. Companies providing a service should not care what it is used for. If society has a problem with what people are using services for, it should pass laws, and the companies should comply with the requirements of the law. I don't know why we are allowing massive companies with unchecked power to make decisions about what is acceptable behaviour on social networks. Since when did they make th…

I spent a few minutes thinking about your reply and I can't determine whether I also share this same opinion, although it is a set of good points. There are parts of me that feel like services like Facebook and Twitter may not fit in this model because they've almost inadvertently become modern journalistic entities, and my concerns with them are more monopolistic than their probably justified ability (given that the…

> because they've almost inadvertently become modern journalistic entities

Perhaps not inadvertently..

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#496

Post by neartheplain »

gkanai wrote: post #482
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #95

There is a difference between bank accounts, Visa/MasterCard access and Internet service, on one hand, and App Stores, Twitter accounts and payment providers, on the other hand. The First Amendment promises both free speech and free assembly. Core to the latter is the freedom not to assemble. This freedom is regulated. You can’t refuse to do business with protected classes. But political affiliation is not a protecte…

> AWS and Visa feel like the former, though they are legally the latter. Back in the day, you had to rack your own servers in your own data centers and manage them yourself. Had any of these 'free speech' services spent any time considering how reliant they were on 3rd party services, they should never have engaged those companies in the first place. There was a day when you had to build your own servers to host your…

Gab does this- they run their own servers and payment processing. For better or for worse, they have remained online and seen a huge uptick in traffic [0] while Parler has been kicked off every cloud vendor. I suspect Gab will displace Parler as the QAnon crowd's platform of choice.

[0] https://www.businessinsider.com/gab-reports-growth-in-the-mi...

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#497

Post by standardUser »

TearsInTheRain wrote: post #447
Rapzid wrote: post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the more concerning tactics I've witnessed over the past few years that Trump and other parts of the GOP rhetoric machine were using in service of lying to people.. Convincing people who don't understand very well their rights, democracy, civics, and etc that their RIGHTS were being infringed; by others exercising their rights. "Stop The Steal" is just another flavor of conflating 1st amendment "freedom of spe…

> Convincing people who don't understand very well their rights, democracy, civics, and etc that their RIGHTS were being infringed; by others exercising their rights. I dont think we need to infantilize Trump supporters. They are capable of evaluating claims made by the GOP.

We've seen poll after poll for a couple decades showing that Fox News viewers have a weaker grip on the facts than other news consumers. And we've seen that the conservative movement in the US will cling to ideas that aren't embraced by any other major parties in the Western world. And that most Republicans will accept a lie like "the steal" with no evidence, and even despite ample evidence to the contrary.

I don't want to infantilize anyone, but I'm not going to pretend that most Trump supporters are fully understanding the facts but simply coming to different conclusions. They are clearly and proudly ignoring the facts.

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#498

Post by mikedilger »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #95

There is a difference between bank accounts, Visa/MasterCard access and Internet service, on one hand, and App Stores, Twitter accounts and payment providers, on the other hand. The First Amendment promises both free speech and free assembly. Core to the latter is the freedom not to assemble. This freedom is regulated. You can’t refuse to do business with protected classes. But political affiliation is not a protecte…

> But political affiliation is not a protected class.

Just FYI, some countries have made it a protected class, e.g.: https://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1993/0082/latest/... (see 21(1)(j))

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#499

Post by enw »

pmiller2 wrote: post #426
camhart wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This takes it a step closer, and certainly invokes that fear.

You should be afraid of supporting fascists.

I'm surprised seeing these sort of comments on HN.

Implying Republican == fascist is the exact type of thinking this world doesn't need, and prevents any kind of nuanced discussion.

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#500

Post by aww_dang »

ketamine__ wrote: post #313
refurb wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's entertaining how the left was so critical of the use of the word "terrorist" when talking about the War on Terror, but then immediately started throwing it around when it politically expedient.

The FBI says one the biggest threats is domestic terrorism. > In recent years, federal authorities have described American extremists as the most urgent terror threat to the country and beefed up resources against them, carrying out a wave of prosecutions this year to head off potential violence as the presidential election approached. https://www.propublica.org/article/domestic-terrorism-a-more...

Biggest threat to whom?
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