When I saw the YC post about praising DoorDash and Airbnb, it was clear that YC endorses doing borderline illegal things in the name of growth. Same with Pg’s posts of how to create billionaires. In a way he’s not wrong, about hacking taken to a whole new level of messing with entire cities and industries. But as a greater society, without proper regulation, we’ll have a dystopia. The rich are insanely rich while the…
California law bans delivery apps from listing a restaurant without an agreement
491–500 of 663 posts
Re: California law bans delivery apps from listing a restaurant without an agreement
#492This is undeniably a good thing if you put yourself in the shoes of the restaurant. Imagine if someone went around impersonating your business online, leveraging the good name you have built for yourself over the decades. They create ads offering your expert development services, ostensibly competing with your existing website, but with intentionally slashed pricing and a ‘creatively’ misrepresented offering (aka gro…
The misrepresentation would seem to be the big thing. Someone, let's call them Joe, publishes a list of restaurants online with links to their menus and offers to deliver for the price of the order with tip plus a $10 delivery fee. And has a clear disclaimer that they're not affiliated with the businesses. That seems pretty unobjectionable. And how would the restaurant even know? [ADDED: Subject of course to any heal…
Re: California law bans delivery apps from listing a restaurant without an agreement
#493Earlier quoted context omitted.
Because most restaurant owners want to be in the business of running a restaurant, not litigating some out-of-state entities with billion-dollar warchests. Doing the former is working two full-time jobs, as is.
Them not wanting to handle their own problems is not a reason for the State to subsidize solutions for them.
Re: California law bans delivery apps from listing a restaurant without an agreement
#494Earlier quoted context omitted.
I’m incredibly perplexed why people do this. Even pre pandemic it was patently obvious to anyone who paid attention that certain foods just don’t deliver well. Before the internet became a thing, the only places that regularly offered delivery were pizza joints and Chinese food, because both of those survive delivery well! I ordered delivery burgers once, from a restaurant close by, and learned my lesson that burgers…
Who is old enough to remember the McDLT? https://youtu.be/UTSdUOC8Kac
Re: California law bans delivery apps from listing a restaurant without an agreement
#495Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think it IS a matter of expectation, yes. If I go and pick up something that doesn't sit around at room temperature well (let's say a milkshake), and drive 20 minutes home before eating it, I'm not going to ding the restaurant for the fact it's melted. If, however, milkshakes are offered for takeout (reasonable), but then a third delivery party gets involved and starts offering them for delivery, anyone ordering it…
Funny fact, one of the best deliveries I’ve gotten this year was ice cream. The local creamery[0] has an option to sign up for weekly deliveries. They obviously bring the equipment to keep it properly frozen (easier than a milkshake I know), and check IDs for their alcoholic ice creams. I suspect that if they wanted to, they could have pulled off milkshake deliveries, although the logistics wouldn’t scale. 0 - https:…
Re: California law bans delivery apps from listing a restaurant without an agreement
#496Yet another law to reduce competition in the delivery space and help existing monopolies. I'm sure GrubHub and DoorDash are cheering. Indexing and aggregating data is already covered by numerous laws. If Google can aggregate restaurant listings without permission then why can't others? Linking is ok, showing a call button is ok, but delivering isn't? The law around copyright is clear: you can't copy a restaurants men…
> Indexing and aggregating data is already covered by numerous laws. If Google can aggregate restaurant listings without permission then why can't others? Linking is ok, showing a call button is ok, but delivering isn't?
Searching for information on the internet and having food delivered are not the same experience; I'm usually not "hangry" when my search results take too long to come up, and/or are not what I was expecting. Even so, I usually blame Google for the bad results. It "should" be the same for food delivery services as well, where people "should" blame DoorDash/GrubHub, but that rarely happens. For better or worse, it is the restaurant that takes the blame, and risks losing future business.
Most people I have spoken to regarding this issue were under the assumption that the delivery service already had agreements in place with these restaurants. A lot of these people are business owners themselves, and were surprised to find out that no such agreements existed; much like I was when I first found out about this issue.
> The law around copyright is clear: you can't copy a restaurants menu without permission the same way you can't copy someone's blog post. This should be enough.
True. It "should" be enough, but in practice, it rarely is. Most companies operate knowing that legal processes are lengthy and expensive and take that into account when modeling their business practices.
> Why don't restaurants want delivery companies doing this? The typical argument is bad Yelp reviews. Instead of blaming delivery companies why not blame Yelp for not authenticating their reviews?
When you're a small-business owner losing business due to the activities of some third-party service you did not authorize to represent you in the first place, you're usually not looking to blame another third-party service for the bad reviews you didn't know you were getting; especially one whose "business-model" was to blackmail restaurants to take down bad reviews. As a business owner, it is my right to know my customer and know anyone who is (mis)using my brand without my permission.
> Restaurants should be benefiting from delivery companies distributing their products, and there is nothing preventing them from offering direct to consumer deliveries themselves.
A handful of restaurants I order from on DoorDash/GrubHub usually have their own delivery crew. It isn't a requirement for every restaurant to offer delivery. Elsewhere in this thread, there was the issue of certain food items (usually the restaurant's speciality) having very precise kitchen-to-table time requirements. It is hard for a restaurant owner to control their product when they don't have any control over the delivery process. And when they choose to not have delivery, they are bypassed entirely by these third-parties. Seems perfectly fine for the restaurant to fight back against such practices.
EDIT: fixed typo
Re: California law bans delivery apps from listing a restaurant without an agreement
#497Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think we can carve out an exception specifically for food and food services. Why? Because of the extremely limited shelf life of hot food. That’s what sets it apart from your other examples.
Your "why" is totally arbitrary. Shelf life? Why not dollars? Apple could say it should receive extra protection because it loses 1000+ dollars every time an unauthorized MacBook Pro or iPhone 12 is sold outside of the channels that it controls. (I don't believe that is entirely true, but it's how Apple would argue it) Whereas unauthorized food deliveries are dealing in the tens of dollars, and further, the restauran…
Food products, especially restaurant foods, are regulated differently than non-food consumer goods. And have been for over a century. There are licensing requirements, safety requirements, and other rules that apply to restaurants that don't apply to other businesses.
And those "arbitrary" laws make all the difference in why unapproved middlemen should not be allowed for restaurant foods.
Re: California law bans delivery apps from listing a restaurant without an agreement
#498Earlier quoted context omitted.
Now that I think about it, I think this law could also hurt competition even amongst established players, allowing them to squeeze restaurants even harder. Imagine platforms A, B, and C. Platform A approaches Daisy's Cafe offering an amazing deal on a delivery partnership, as long as the Cafe agrees not to use any other delivery companies. Daisy asks around and hears great things about Platform A, so she says yes – w…
We’re at a point with this pandemic that those who will purchase with delivery platform have likely developed some form of affinity towards a preferred vendor or two. A bigger issue is that few restaurants will survive through the extended statewide shutdowns. Delivery is meant to be a small route of generating revenue, rather than the sole revenue stream. The overhead costs of a retail storefront and operations will…
The fact is that mainstream, even upper middle class, consumers won't en masse pay enough for some sorts of services to work when extended beyond the niches when it already does work.
Re: California law bans delivery apps from listing a restaurant without an agreement
#499Earlier quoted context omitted.
Careful there... Apple (or any manufacturer) could say the same thing about Ebay. Any sports team or band could say it about Stubhub. Nike could say it about StockX.
None of those examples claim to be, or otherwise tey to make you think they are, an official outlet for those goods.
Re: California law bans delivery apps from listing a restaurant without an agreement
#500Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Isn't part of being a successful business knowing where to put your energy as a business owner? If you own a small restaurant... are you really in it to be a tycoon of industry? Or are you passionate about the food and the community? I know I want to spend as little time as possible thinking about sales and marketing, and just focus on improving my product and making my customers happy.
Most small restaurants fail within a year of opening. It’s a very tough business. Some app claiming that you are partnering with them for delivery when that is not the case is not necessarily positive for a business given potential reputational risk.
Why is that? Seems straightforward - exchange food for money. Why's that so difficult to make work?