YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread election fraud • Hacker News Board

Re: YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread election fraud

#491

Post by GordonS » Wed, Dec 09, 2020, 8:41 PM UTC

AlexandrB wrote: post #465

GordonS wrote: post #400

I don't like what YouTube is doing. But... What is going on in the US just now is unprecedented in modern Western democracies - we've reached "peak fake news" in the USA. Mainstream news networks like Fox have talking heads spouting venomous lies that are demonstrably and trivially proven as such. The POTUS is lying on an hourly basis (many of those lies just brazenly , ridiculously false), and has millions of people…

Whatever you think of Trump's politics, I think it's safe to say that his time in office has set a series of very bad precedents for the US political process. This is just the latest in that series. I agree that this is the "least worst" choice in the short term, but it fails to address what I think are the core problems with Youtube w.r.t. radicalization and fake news while setting a precedent for blocking political…

I fully agree. What YouTube is doing right now is perhaps the "least worst" to deal with radicalisation in the very short term - but if this increasing lie-based polarisation continues unchecked, I genuinely fear for the future of the US.

But what can realistically be done while maintaining freedom of speech, and especially when the "leader of the free world" is arguably the main culprit?

Re: YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread election fraud

#492

Post by lalaland1125 » Wed, Dec 09, 2020, 8:42 PM UTC

Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #386

Unpopular opinion: it is much better to have a leader hated by the media and who's every move is scrutinized by the press than to have a leader cowtowed by the press and given a free pass on anything. How do I know? I'm from Russia. Authoritatism begins with tight control of news sources.

This comment is really weird. There is a good reason why the media publishes more negative articles about some presidents and fewer on others; some presidents are legitimately better or worse than others.

Re: YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread election fraud

#493

Post by weaksauce » Wed, Dec 09, 2020, 8:42 PM UTC

cm2187 wrote: post #482

GordonS wrote: post #400

I don't like what YouTube is doing. But... What is going on in the US just now is unprecedented in modern Western democracies - we've reached "peak fake news" in the USA. Mainstream news networks like Fox have talking heads spouting venomous lies that are demonstrably and trivially proven as such. The POTUS is lying on an hourly basis (many of those lies just brazenly , ridiculously false), and has millions of people…

You probably switched off your TV the last four years (and you were right to do so). But the likes of CNN and MSNBC have been pushing their own fake news continuously for 4 years, pretending that the election had been stolen, that the Trump campaign colluded with Russia, etc. I think all of this is bad, but I refuse to accept that this is a bad behavior that just came up and is the monopoly of a single side of the po…

> that the Trump campaign colluded with Russia

the mueller report stated "while the investigation identified numerous links between individuals with ties to the Russian government and individuals associated with the Trump Campaign, the evidence was not sufficient to support criminal charges."

That and they also found many cases of obstruction of justice that could be charged and would have said that he was cleared if they could clear him. so obstruct justice numerous times and then the outcome of that obstruction makes it so that they can't find sufficient evidence of a crime. Reporting on that is not "fake news."

Re: YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread election fraud

#494

Post by klyrs » Wed, Dec 09, 2020, 8:44 PM UTC

cambalache wrote: post #421

GordonS wrote: post #400

I don't like what YouTube is doing. But... What is going on in the US just now is unprecedented in modern Western democracies - we've reached "peak fake news" in the USA. Mainstream news networks like Fox have talking heads spouting venomous lies that are demonstrably and trivially proven as such. The POTUS is lying on an hourly basis (many of those lies just brazenly , ridiculously false), and has millions of people…

> But... There is no "buts" regarding freedom. I dont know if you have any experience with authoritarian measures but none of them starts like "This is a bad and permanent measure for no reason"... all of them are "exceptional", "to ensure public safety" ,"only valid as long as extraordinary circumstances are present"..all of them. The democrats were claiming fraud 4 years go due to a supposed Russian influence.The e…

> There is no "buts" regarding freedom

Explain the existence of a heavily militarized police force, then. And the war on drugs. And blue laws. And the existence of borders, and the notion of citizenship.

No, freedom has many limitations. Some of those limitations are justified by reducing or punishing harm to others. Some are justified by reducing or punishing harm to self. Some are naked authoritarianism.

We have a president who's a proud authoritarian who literally celebrates violence against the press and summary executions by the police. He's spreading virulent disinformation with the express intent to overrule the will of the people, and he's consistently signalling that insurrection is the remedy to his failure to do so. Does your "no 'buts' regarding freedom" go so far as to tear down democracy in favor of a would-be dictator's "freedom" to commit treason?

Re: YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread election fraud

#495

Post by slothtrop » Wed, Dec 09, 2020, 8:45 PM UTC

cambalache wrote: post #421

GordonS wrote: post #400

I don't like what YouTube is doing. But... What is going on in the US just now is unprecedented in modern Western democracies - we've reached "peak fake news" in the USA. Mainstream news networks like Fox have talking heads spouting venomous lies that are demonstrably and trivially proven as such. The POTUS is lying on an hourly basis (many of those lies just brazenly , ridiculously false), and has millions of people…

> But... There is no "buts" regarding freedom. I dont know if you have any experience with authoritarian measures but none of them starts like "This is a bad and permanent measure for no reason"... all of them are "exceptional", "to ensure public safety" ,"only valid as long as extraordinary circumstances are present"..all of them. The democrats were claiming fraud 4 years go due to a supposed Russian influence.The e…

That's interesting, because Youtube was never "free", in more ways than one. The content that reaches users is curated. It's no coincidence that conspiracy videos spread and show up on everyone's feed: Youtube propagates it.

Re: YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread election fraud

#496

Post by root_axis » Wed, Dec 09, 2020, 8:46 PM UTC

cambalache wrote: post #421

GordonS wrote: post #400

I don't like what YouTube is doing. But... What is going on in the US just now is unprecedented in modern Western democracies - we've reached "peak fake news" in the USA. Mainstream news networks like Fox have talking heads spouting venomous lies that are demonstrably and trivially proven as such. The POTUS is lying on an hourly basis (many of those lies just brazenly , ridiculously false), and has millions of people…

> But... There is no "buts" regarding freedom. I dont know if you have any experience with authoritarian measures but none of them starts like "This is a bad and permanent measure for no reason"... all of them are "exceptional", "to ensure public safety" ,"only valid as long as extraordinary circumstances are present"..all of them. The democrats were claiming fraud 4 years go due to a supposed Russian influence.The e…

YouTube has the freedom not to host your videos for free.

Re: YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread election fraud

#497

Post by tshaddox » Wed, Dec 09, 2020, 8:46 PM UTC

cambalache wrote: post #421

GordonS wrote: post #400

I don't like what YouTube is doing. But... What is going on in the US just now is unprecedented in modern Western democracies - we've reached "peak fake news" in the USA. Mainstream news networks like Fox have talking heads spouting venomous lies that are demonstrably and trivially proven as such. The POTUS is lying on an hourly basis (many of those lies just brazenly , ridiculously false), and has millions of people…

> But... There is no "buts" regarding freedom. I dont know if you have any experience with authoritarian measures but none of them starts like "This is a bad and permanent measure for no reason"... all of them are "exceptional", "to ensure public safety" ,"only valid as long as extraordinary circumstances are present"..all of them. The democrats were claiming fraud 4 years go due to a supposed Russian influence.The e…

> There is no "buts" regarding freedom.

I'm curious what you think about the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance.

Re: YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread election fraud

#498

Post by timmytokyo » Wed, Dec 09, 2020, 8:46 PM UTC

warlord1 wrote: post #398

singlow wrote: post #330

If there is to be toleration in the world, one of the things taught in schools must be the habit of weighing evidence, and the practice of not giving full assent to propositions which there is no reason to believe true. For example, the art of reading the newspapers should be taught. The schoolmaster should select some incident which happened a good many years ago, and roused political passions in its day. He should…

There has been obvious evidence of voter fraud. Please see the videos of the poll workers running ballots at the State Farm Arena in Detroit after they kicked out the poll challengers from the room. I know many people will eagerly spin this evidence (and countless others) so I'll compound it with tangential evidence not related to voter fraud, per se. 1. Why hasn't Kamala Harris resigned from her senate seat? 2. Why…

Why hasn't evidence for any of this appeared in lawsuits filed by the president's campaign? Why have the many lawsuits they have filed been so easily dismissed by the courts, often with prejudice?

It's a con. And you're the mark.

Re: YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread election fraud

#499

Post by drchopchop » Wed, Dec 09, 2020, 8:47 PM UTC

sam_goody wrote: post #484

GordonS wrote: post #400

I don't like what YouTube is doing. But... What is going on in the US just now is unprecedented in modern Western democracies - we've reached "peak fake news" in the USA. Mainstream news networks like Fox have talking heads spouting venomous lies that are demonstrably and trivially proven as such. The POTUS is lying on an hourly basis (many of those lies just brazenly , ridiculously false), and has millions of people…

The POTUS has made claims that need to be thought about rationally. Does the tech world really think that electronic voting is reliable when done the way Dominion did it? Is there is a rational explanation when votes jump from one candidate to another on live public TV? Are there too many acceptable mail in votes to make sense? Etc. The conclusion for someone who does the research may be that things are OK, that all…

The POTUS makes claims which have no evidence backing them, which is why he keeps losing over and over again in court.

Why should any random claim be called a "proof"? Should flat earth videos get the same equivalent as NASA programming?

Why should we, as society, give equal weight to people like yourself who have "no interest in doing that research"?

Re: YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread election fraud

#500

Post by Solvitieg » Wed, Dec 09, 2020, 8:48 PM UTC

pavanky wrote: post #246

howmayiannoyyou wrote: post #110

We are very fortunate to have the algorithms, employees & management of Youtube/Google watching out for us. We're not intelligent enough to view a video and decide for ourselves what is fact v. propaganda v. entertainment. Hopefully some day we will have the same protections the CCP gives its people with even more content moderation. Thank you Google - you're the nanny the American people and the world always hoped f…

You say this while half the country believes random people on Youtube and Facebook, refuse to wear masks in a pandemic that is killing people by the thousands. I was young and believer in open internet once (and still am mostly) but the society as a whole has underestimated how much people are susceptible to being deceived and the cost differential between spreading and refuting false information. I don't see this as…

"The idea that half the population has lost its mind while you have retained a perfect grasp of reality is unlikely."