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Nvidia to Acquire Arm for $40B

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Re: Nvidia to Acquire Arm for $40B

#491

Post by vaxman »

throwaway4good wrote: post #353

Qualcomm and Apple are going to be fine even with NVIDIA owning ARM. They are American companies under the protection of US legislation and representation. However the situation for Chinese companies is even clearer now. Huawei, Hikvision etc. need to move away from ARM. Probably on to their own thing as RISC-V is dominated by US companies.

Qualcomm, Apple and NVidia will lose favor with the US government unless they bring (at least a full copy of) their FAB partners and the rest of their supply chains home to America (Southwest including USMCA zone). We love Southeast Asia, but the pandemic highlighted our vulnerability and, as a country, we’re not going to keep sourcing our critical infrastructure in China —or it’s back yard. If those American CEOs keep balking at the huge investment required, you will see the US government write massive checks to Intel (has numerous, albeit obsolete, domestic FABs), DELL and upstarts (like System76 in Colorado) to pick winners, while the elevator to hell gains a new stop in Silicon Valley and San Diego (nationalizing patents, etc) during a sort of “war effort” like we had in the early 1940s.

Re: Nvidia to Acquire Arm for $40B

#492

Post by [deleted] »

bogomipz wrote: post #487
fluffything wrote: post #441

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What have confidence when we can just look at ARM financials? There are more ARM chips sold each year than those of all its competitors together. Yet ARM's revenue is 300 million $. Why? Because ARM lives from the ISA royalties, and their revenue on the cores they license is actually small. With RISC-V on the rise, and west sanctions against china, RISC-V competition against ARM will only increase, and it is very har…

>" If they want a world-class CPU team for the data-center, ARM isn't that (Graviton, Apple Silicon, Fujitsu, etc. are built and designed by better teams)." The latest Fujitsus HPC offering the A64FX is also ARM based though.[1][2] And it sounds as though this is replacing their SPARC64 in this role . [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fujitsu_A64FX [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fugaku_(supercomputer)

[deleted]

Re: Nvidia to Acquire Arm for $40B

#493

Post by [deleted] »

als0 wrote: post #486
fluffything wrote: post #441

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What have confidence when we can just look at ARM financials? There are more ARM chips sold each year than those of all its competitors together. Yet ARM's revenue is 300 million $. Why? Because ARM lives from the ISA royalties, and their revenue on the cores they license is actually small. With RISC-V on the rise, and west sanctions against china, RISC-V competition against ARM will only increase, and it is very har…

> If they want a world-class CPU team for the data-center, ARM isn't that (Graviton Graviton uses Neoverse CPU cores, which are designed by ARM. To say that ARM is not a world-class CPU team is unfair. Especially as Ampere just announced an 80 core datacenter SoC using Neoverse cores.

[deleted]

Re: Nvidia to Acquire Arm for $40B

#494

Post by formerly_proven »

bogomipz wrote: post #487
fluffything wrote: post #441

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What have confidence when we can just look at ARM financials? There are more ARM chips sold each year than those of all its competitors together. Yet ARM's revenue is 300 million $. Why? Because ARM lives from the ISA royalties, and their revenue on the cores they license is actually small. With RISC-V on the rise, and west sanctions against china, RISC-V competition against ARM will only increase, and it is very har…

>" If they want a world-class CPU team for the data-center, ARM isn't that (Graviton, Apple Silicon, Fujitsu, etc. are built and designed by better teams)." The latest Fujitsus HPC offering the A64FX is also ARM based though.[1][2] And it sounds as though this is replacing their SPARC64 in this role . [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fujitsu_A64FX [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fugaku_(supercomputer)

The core is not designed by ARM.

Re: Nvidia to Acquire Arm for $40B

#495

Post by Followerer »

fluffything wrote: post #441
bencollier49 wrote: post #434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That feels like giving up, to me. We should have the confidence that British industry can development and flourish on its own merits without being sold off to foreign interests.

What have confidence when we can just look at ARM financials? There are more ARM chips sold each year than those of all its competitors together. Yet ARM's revenue is 300 million $. Why? Because ARM lives from the ISA royalties, and their revenue on the cores they license is actually small. With RISC-V on the rise, and west sanctions against china, RISC-V competition against ARM will only increase, and it is very har…

The main source of revenue for ARM is, by far, royalties. Licenses are paid once, royalties are paid by unit shipped. And they shipped billions last year.

Revenue is not $300, we don't know what ARM's revenue is because it hasn't been published since 2016. And back then it was like $1.5 billion. $300 million was net income. Again, in 2016.

I think you've already been adequately corrected on your misconceptions about ARM's CPU design teams.

Re: Nvidia to Acquire Arm for $40B

#496

Post by dragontamer »

rvense wrote: post #470
exikyut wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The FS32R274VCK2VMM appears to be the cheapest in this series; Digi-Key have it for $30, NXP has it for "$13 @ 10K". This is for a 200MHz part. https://www.nxp.com/part/FS32R274VCK2VMM https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/nxp-usa-inc/FS32R2... The two related devkits list for $529 and $4,123: https://www.digikey.com/products/en/development-boards-kits-... -- Those processors make quite a few reference to an "e20…

These are all basically ten-year-old parts, aren't they?

They're all low end embedded parts with highly integrated peripherals. Basically: a microcontroller.

No different than say, Cortex-M0 or M0+ in many regards (although ARM scales down to lower spec'd pieces).

Re: Nvidia to Acquire Arm for $40B

#497

Post by Followerer »

zdw wrote: post #73

I see this going a few ways for different players: The perpetual architecture license folks that make their own cores like Apple, Samsung, Qualcomm, and Fujitsu (I think they needed this for the A64FX, right?) will be fine, and may just fork off on the ARMv8.3 spec, adding a few instructions here or there. Apple especially will be fine as they can get code into LLVM for whatever "Apple Silicon" evolves into over time…

"and may just fork off on the ARMv8.3 spec, adding a few instructions here or there"

No, they may not. People keep suggesting these kinds of things, but part of the license agreement is that you can't modify the ISA. Only ARM can do that.

Re: Nvidia to Acquire Arm for $40B

#498

Post by xigency »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #2

And there you have it. Perhaps the greatest thing to happen to RISC-V since the invention of the FPGA :-). I never liked Softbank owning it, but hey someone has to. Regarding the federal investment in FOSS thread that was here perhaps CPU architecture would be a good candidate.

> I never liked Softbank owning it, but hey someone has to.

I understand what you're saying and this seems to be the prevailing pattern but I really don't understand it. ARM could easily be a standalone company. For some reason, mergers are in.

Re: Nvidia to Acquire Arm for $40B

#499

Post by thomasjudge »

zdw wrote: post #306
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The perpetual architecture license folks that make their own cores like Apple, Samsung, Qualcomm, and Fujitsu (I think they needed this for the A64FX, right?) will be fine There is one thing they would need to worry about though, which is that if the rest of the market moves to RISC-V or x64 or whatever else, it's not implausible that someone might at some point make a processor which is superior to the ones those…

> Their best move might be to forget about the architecture license and make the switch to something else with the rest of the market. This assumes that there isn't some other factor in transitioning architecture - this argument could boil down in the mid 2000's to "Why not go x86/amd64", but you couldn't buy a license to that easily (would need to be 3-way with Intel/AMD to further complicate things) Apple has done…

It's kind of puzzling that Apple didn't buy them. They don't seem to be particularly aggressive/creative in the M&A department

Re: Nvidia to Acquire Arm for $40B

#500

Post by tonitosou »

fortran77 wrote: post #489
siberianbear wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In addition, it's not even a valid argument if the cost was entirely in cash. One would be making the argument, "the cost is essentially free because although we spent $40B, we acquired a company worth $40B". Obviously, that's not any more correct than the case of paying in stock.

I pay the car dealer $20,000, I get a car worth $20,000. Was the car free?

actually as soon as u get the car its not a 20k$ car anymore.
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