Del.icio.us • Hacker News Board

Re: Del.icio.us

#491

Post by kkarakk » Thu, Jul 30, 2020, 10:33 AM UTC

quadrifoliate wrote: post #465

killjoywashere wrote: post #427

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jerry Yang is Taiwanese. I'd like to think I work hard, but my current boss is of Taiwanese extraction. The cultural commitment to suffering is hard to explain. My usual joke with her is asking if she slept well on her bed of nails. I can imagine he may feel like his employees should be grateful for the opportunity to exhibit their suffering.

> Jerry Yang is Taiwanese...the cultural commitment to suffering is hard to explain...I can imagine he may feel like his employees should be grateful for the opportunity to exhibit their suffering. Aaaand stuff like this is exactly why I say Asians face racism in tech and need to push back against the idea that they are "overrepresented" [1]. I really hope that if I'm in a management position, my reports don't feel l…

Culture does contribute to management style and you're being really weirdly politically correct in not accepting it.

Re: Del.icio.us

#492

Post by 3FBD4FDE » Thu, Jul 30, 2020, 10:37 AM UTC

joshu wrote: post #425

stef25 wrote: post #422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey Joshua! Many years ago I saw you give a presentation about del.icio.us at a web conference in London (forgot the name, organized by a guy called Ryan?) I'd just started learning web development and going through a career change in to that world. In your presentation you came across laid back and totally unpretentious, explaining how you dropped a corporate career to focus on the site, of which I was a user at the…

congrats! i still have nagios nightmares.

When I'm armpits deep in prometheus these days I occasionally pine for nagios.

Only ocassionally.

Re: Del.icio.us

#493

Post by killjoywashere » Thu, Jul 30, 2020, 10:41 AM UTC

quadrifoliate wrote: post #465

killjoywashere wrote: post #427

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jerry Yang is Taiwanese. I'd like to think I work hard, but my current boss is of Taiwanese extraction. The cultural commitment to suffering is hard to explain. My usual joke with her is asking if she slept well on her bed of nails. I can imagine he may feel like his employees should be grateful for the opportunity to exhibit their suffering.

> Jerry Yang is Taiwanese...the cultural commitment to suffering is hard to explain...I can imagine he may feel like his employees should be grateful for the opportunity to exhibit their suffering. Aaaand stuff like this is exactly why I say Asians face racism in tech and need to push back against the idea that they are "overrepresented" [1]. I really hope that if I'm in a management position, my reports don't feel l…

Since you want references, is survey data acceptable?

https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/3415130

how about forums?

https://www.reddit.com/r/taiwan/comments/6aa3x9/what_is_wron...

News reports?

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-16834258

> Jerry Yang came to American when he was 10 years old, around 4th grade

So ... his parents dropped their culture at the shoreline?

You know, there really are differences between cultures. That's thing. Italians, on average, really do tend to make better marinara. Find me a black person in America who doesn't know what fatback is (delicious component of certain Southern dishes, by the way). Convince me that the average white person does know what fatback is. Convince me that the average American knows what the Euro is (A night club? A style?).

If I said "I imagine Martin Luther may have liked beer and Weisswurst" is that racist?

> one of the parent comments is saying was "too nice"

Good point, yes, that's completely in line with the "work is next to Godliness" attitude I've observed. In that social norm, being nice is essentially the same as being grateful for the opportunity to take on more work. Nice = more opportunity to work. Now, there's also a bit of "forgive but remember" that goes with that. Those who need niceness all the time, maybe you don't hang out with them as much because you can only handle being so nice, you just can't take on more niceness, you're exhausted! May this dear friend share their opportunities to be nice to them a bit more with their other friends.

Re: Del.icio.us

#494

Post by killjoywashere » Thu, Jul 30, 2020, 10:49 AM UTC

lazyasciiart wrote: post #460

reaperducer wrote: post #455

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Read it again. It's not a stereotype. It's his personal observation.

It's his personal observation that Jerry Yang is the same nationality as his manager, and therefore thinks the same way.

It's my observation, a hundred times a day, living among a mixture of Asian cultures and traveling to various Asian countries (can I call them Asian countries? They are in Asia, after all) for the last two years, that a lot of these folks work really hard and will not say no to more work. There are lazy people everywhere, but the ones who work will work themselves to death.

I did not say Jerry Yang thinks the same way. I said I imagine he could. It's a thought experiment. Can you imagine what kind of life it must be to think that suffering is the mark of success? Open your mind and think about that. What it must be like. How it must affect your kids. How you must have been affected as a kid. Why, what geopolitical factors created that cultural norm? Think. Think. The point of the comment was to think.

Re: Del.icio.us

#495

Post by notsureaboutpg » Thu, Jul 30, 2020, 11:35 AM UTC

kkarakk wrote: post #491

quadrifoliate wrote: post #465

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Jerry Yang is Taiwanese...the cultural commitment to suffering is hard to explain...I can imagine he may feel like his employees should be grateful for the opportunity to exhibit their suffering. Aaaand stuff like this is exactly why I say Asians face racism in tech and need to push back against the idea that they are "overrepresented" [1]. I really hope that if I'm in a management position, my reports don't feel l…

Culture does contribute to management style and you're being really weirdly politically correct in not accepting it.

He's not being politically correct about it. He just doesn't agree that people should assume a person from a country follows that country's culture in every way (or even in many ways).

If there's other evidence that said person follows such a management style or management culture, fine, but being from somewhere isn't enough. Culture isn't immutable or genetic. It's something we choose and reinforce or reevaluate and deemphasize daily.

Re: Del.icio.us

#496

Post by notsureaboutpg » Thu, Jul 30, 2020, 11:41 AM UTC

killjoywashere wrote: post #493

quadrifoliate wrote: post #465

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Jerry Yang is Taiwanese...the cultural commitment to suffering is hard to explain...I can imagine he may feel like his employees should be grateful for the opportunity to exhibit their suffering. Aaaand stuff like this is exactly why I say Asians face racism in tech and need to push back against the idea that they are "overrepresented" [1]. I really hope that if I'm in a management position, my reports don't feel l…

Since you want references, is survey data acceptable? https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/3415130 how about forums? https://www.reddit.com/r/taiwan/comments/6aa3x9/what_is_wron... News reports? https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-16834258 > Jerry Yang came to American when he was 10 years old, around 4th grade So ... his parents dropped their culture at the shoreline? You know, there really are differences between…

But by the same token not everyone fits into or abides by the dominant culture around them. There surely are black Americans who don't know what fatback is. The very nature of groups is that on average they are different and they always have a significant number of outliers.

Culture is real and there are differences between them but they also are chosen each and every day, and you can never tell someone's values just by looking at them.

Re: Del.icio.us

#497

Post by tripzilch » Thu, Jul 30, 2020, 12:15 PM UTC

glenstein wrote: post #230

kerkeslager wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Delicious was for a time at the cultural nerve center of the web, and I think had the potential to be something like a twitter or a reddit if stewarded correctly. Delicious turning into Twitter or Reddit would have been a real loss. "But it doesn't scale!" is practically a mantra for HN, but scalability is fairly low on the list of values for me. I'd rather have interesting websites than big websites, and I'd rathe…

>Delicious turning into Twitter or Reddit would have been a real loss. I don't mean to suggest it would have been similar to them culturally, or that it would have evolved into a copy of reddit or twitter. It would have still been delicious, in the sense that it would always be a booking service (as long as they never went all in with Delicious Stacks, which I think nobody remembers except me). I also don't doubt tha…

> Even with the loses you identify, it was an invaluable asset that could have kept Yahoo relevant.

And in this alternative future, if del.icio.us had kept its core as a social bookmark sharing service, it could even have kept the Web relevant.

Re: Del.icio.us

#498

Post by tripzilch » Thu, Jul 30, 2020, 12:33 PM UTC

flingo wrote: post #489

ansible wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People in general are hugely sensitive to perceived unfairness. This is a critical thing to maintain in any organization. For example, you can take a group of five billionaires. Give the first four a little tax break for something, which totals up to only be a million each. No big deal, right? All these people are the 1% of the 1% of the 1%, the pinnacle of wealth in the world. There's no way that little tax break wo…

> He will spend a lot of time either angry at the situation, or spending that time also trying to get a tax break. It is a good financial decision to spend up to "$1M * " to get that tax break, or another better one. (especially if the ~$500K spent on retainered-lawyers sets you up to pay less due to future tax hikes.) Economics gets weird when any of the numbers get really big, or really small. I don't like this exa…

It's a good financial decision for a business that is supposed to maximise profit for shareholders or employees or something.

But this example is not about that. First to answer your last question, it's the despotic shithole kind. The point being, the reason is completely arbitrary.

This is about a billionaire who can already buy whatever they want, regardless of said tax break. It won't make them directly happier because it doesn't allow them to buy anything they couldn't otherwise buy.

The point of the example is that given this is the case, we still have a built in biological desire for "fairness" and if this billionaire would realise and observe this desire having no logical basis, they would not fight it. (assume fighting it is not as enjoyable to spend their limited life time as they could be doing something else with the money they already have)

In an analogous situation, five people go to a fancy restaurant and for some reason four of them get 10 plates of food, and one gets 9 plates of food. Assume the restaurant is so generous one person can't possibly eat more than 2 plates anyway.

Why is it easier to imagine simply not making a big deal out of it and enjoying your meal(s), in this situation?

(Especially considering that the meal example is 100x more unfair)

Re: Del.icio.us

#499

Post by tripzilch » Thu, Jul 30, 2020, 12:41 PM UTC

bE9a3S5So8igd3 wrote: post #163

g5becks wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was wondering if anyone was going to point this out. I can remember digg being bigger than everything besides maybe stumbleupon for a short while when it came to bookmarking sites.I never would have imagined reddit being what it is now.

Digg was massive right at the tail end of seeker-net. I myself watched nearly every episode of Diggnation. Great times.

what is (was) "seeker-net"?

Re: Del.icio.us

#500

Post by kerkeslager » Thu, Jul 30, 2020, 12:51 PM UTC

bE9a3S5So8igd3 wrote: post #409

kerkeslager wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The barrier to entry for most interesting things is The barrier to entry for making money is a different thing.

The point I made is more nuanced than that. I didn't say there is a large financial barrier to entry for the production of a modern website. The point is, Delicious, Digg, etc. would fizzle out today pretty quickly. Consumers have come to expect a certain refinement of design, usability, mobile-bullshit, etc. etc. that web companies of yore weren't exactly known for. What we're left with today is a bunch of crap that…

I understood your point, I'm just rejecting it. If your measure of success is scaling and making massive amounts of money, then sure, all the successful website are boring. But there are plenty of interesting websites still out there. There are still PHPBB forums which "look like dog shit" but host vibrant communities. I'm not sure on what basis you would consider these communities to have "fizzled out".