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De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

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Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#491

Post by g8tor »

MagnumOpus wrote: post #484
g8tor wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't read that article as supporting the title that descalation leads to less violence. it does discuss evidence for escalation being correlated with more violence. but you can't blanket say that's causal. These are complex situations that don't follow rules. The mob consists of peaceful protesters, violent protesters and looters. people's membership in any of these groups can be multiple and shift over time. it's…

> the police can't cure the people of their anger no matter what they do However, mayors or governors could. Tell AGs to have compulsory investigations of all policce shootings. Charge police officers who don't report corruption or violence with conspiracy charges. Bust police unions which arehelping criminal cops and charge them under RICO statutes.

That's correct from your point of view.

Actually, what I was trying to say, and I did not say clearly...was I don't think the anger that is driving this unrest is only a result of police violence.

I think it's a lot of anger from multiple causes, economic, the lockdown, and so on. That's why I said, no matter what police do, they cannot cure that.

Hopefully I made it clear now.

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#492

Post by KuiN »

kingkawn wrote: post #246

Instead of optimizing protesting don't kill black people.

As an outsider watching from across the Atlantic, I am astonished at what is being posted in these comments. There are hundreds of videos on social media of wanton police violence towards peaceful protestors. Of course there are non-peaceful protestors (and I do not defend them) but they are responded to in incidents of heavy handed violent escalation. Bellingcat have collected more than 100 reports of protected media representatives being beaten, blinded and brutalized by police action. This is all happening during unrest caused by police brutality.

And Hacker News wants to fix the protestors?!

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#493

Post by vkou »

whymauri wrote: post #109
vkou wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meanwhile, in Seattle: https://old.reddit.com/r/Seattle/comments/gu3qq1/cop_just_ca... How would you describe the sheriff casually tossing the tear gas grenade as anything but cartoonishly evil? How would you describe his co-workers, holding the line, without even looking twice at his behaviour?

Seattle PD maced a child and the officer who did it faced no repercussions. Is the Chief of Police a toothless position? The only other conclusion is that maybe GP should consider removing Seattle's Chief as a supporting example. I would consider macing children to be "cartoonishly evil."

And earlier today, SPD invited, met with, and knelt in solidarity with a group of peaceful protesters at the East Precinct on Cap hill. Once the photo op was done, they started macing and gassing the protest.

There was no looting, no vandalism, no riot, no burnt cars in that area. Nobody was behaving violently. It took ten seconds for a peaceful protest to turn into an assault on the public.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Seattle/comments/gv0ru3/this_is_the...

Local news ran this video, cutting the first 20 seconds out, and blamed the crowd on starting violence.

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#494

Post by elil17 »

kthxbye123 wrote: post #436
fasteddie31003 wrote: post #19

Imagine being a cop and having to deal with stuff like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8k4L97igDjY They literally save this man's life and he kills the guy who saved his life. Cops don't work in a safe space. Years of working in a violent and hateful environment must take a serious toll on them.

It’s more dangerous to deliver pizza than to be a cop.

Before you downvote this comment, please consider that this is literally true.

In 2018, 150 US law enforcement officers died due to work related reasons. There were about 690,000 officers employed in America at that time. This means 21.7 out of every 100,000 officers died due to a work related reasons.

The Bureau of Labor Statistics reports that about 25 out of every 100,000 driver/sales workers died due to work related reasons.

For both jobs, most of the deaths were accidental.

Sources: https://www.odmp.org/search/year?year=2018 https://www.statista.com/statistics/191694/number-of-law-enf... https://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/cfoi.pdf

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#495

Post by johnsonjo »

balls187 wrote: post #475
creato wrote: post #470

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems to you based on what? Reddit posts? More realistically, I think it is rarely this simple, on either side. I'm sure that usually there is a feedback loop of escalating responses.

> More realistically, I think it is rarely this simple, on either side. I'm sure that usually there is a feedback loop of escalating responses. The premise of the article is Police showing escalating force, increases escalation of protestors. While likely it's a feedback loop, the police are expected to keep the peace; so there exists a higher standard for their behavior. Yet, an oft criticism is that LE agencies don…

It’s interesting, because I’ve taken a personal firearms course that involved concealed carry in the US and they talk about de-escalation there (I’m pretty sure they have to). I would at least expect the same from police (obviously their training would be much more in depth with all the tools cops get).

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#496

Post by krisoft »

jeffdavis wrote: post #480
pmiller2 wrote: post #449

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've got it backwards. Voting and promoting change is what has not worked. Economic damage is likely to be the only thing that's going to persuade the elites to throw the working class a bone. You're witnessing the anger of the masses in its most pure form here.

Where is the MLK of 2020? I want to see someone who can go beyond their anger and have a plan and lead .

So they can be assassinated? Good plan. (sarcasm indicator. It is not a good plan at all.)

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#497

Post by lazyjones »

bjourne wrote: post #138
beloch wrote: post #78

We should expect police to us less use violence and improve their crowd management and deescalation skills. The increasing militarization of police is a trend that must be reversed. However, we should not neglect the other side of the equation either. This article is, in large part, about just that. The article points out that many protests in the U.S. went smoothly through the practice of police and protest organize…

I've been on a few demos that turned violent. Among them the famous one when George Bush decided to pay a visit. In all cases , the organizers wanted to cooperate with the police. They knew who were in the "autonomous bloc" (troublemakers) and would have gladly helped the police zone in on them. In all cases the police didn't care and charged peaceful and violent demonstrators alike. I find it very odd that the polic…

> In all cases the police didn't care and charged peaceful and violent demonstrators alike.

FWIW, German police regularly used undercover, black-clad, violent agents as a pretext for breaking up peaceful protests. It's probably an established tactic. But the situation in the USA looks very different (from here), violent protesters appear to be a small minority of the problematic people, most of which are just criminals using the opportunity to loot.

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#498

Post by misun78 »

idealboy wrote: post #203
bjourne wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been on a few demos that turned violent. Among them the famous one when George Bush decided to pay a visit. In all cases , the organizers wanted to cooperate with the police. They knew who were in the "autonomous bloc" (troublemakers) and would have gladly helped the police zone in on them. In all cases the police didn't care and charged peaceful and violent demonstrators alike. I find it very odd that the polic…

Insightful reply. I marched yesterday and police fired rubber bullets into a peaceful crowd because we were blocking a non-essential intersection. On a Sunday. We refused to leave and fortunately they left and let us have a peaceful march. There doesn’t seem to be an interest in separating out the extreme minority that protest violently. There had been zero violence or destruction that day. A very well-behaved crowd…

Good for you in being somewhere with zero violence in looting, while here in nyc, entire neighborhoods (soho, herald square etc) has been ransacked and cops run over to death. National guard cannot come soon enough to put away these perpetrators in jail.

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#499

Post by vkou »

drusepth wrote: post #165
m0zg wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> wasn’t organized ahead of time Protests might have been unorganized, but riots most certainly are organized. Torching a police car carries a minimum 5 year sentence. It's not the protesters who are doing that. Moreover, it is still being "organized". Someone keeps dropping off pallets with bricks. There are agitator leaflets all over twitter. People have been recorded on video handing out cash to "protesters" from…

We had a peaceful protest in Kansas City on Friday where some police joined in, listened to protestors, took a knee with the protestors, and the mayor joined the protest as well. It was peaceful and all over the news. The very next day we had several trucks unloading beds of bricks and large rocks throughout the Plaza (where protests were and would be again that night) throughout the day and people were snapping vide…

We had a peaceful protest in Cap Hill in Seattle, where the police knelt in solidarity earlier today. There was no violence, no looting, no broken glass, and everyone was being peaceful.

After the photo op was done, the police started macing and tear-gassing the crowd. The news then ran this video [1], but with the first 20 seconds cut out, and blamed the protesters on initiating violence.

[1] https://www.reddit.com/r/Seattle/comments/gv0ru3/this_is_the...

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#500

Post by californical »

joshuamorton wrote: post #468
bananabreakfast wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are trying to sound objective by comparing protests but frankly you sound downright foolish. You're comparing protests about systemic racism and murder to protests getting hair cuts and lowering taxes. Of course one side's protests usually break out in violence. They are protesting the very fact that they are inordinately subject to widespread state-sanctioned violence.

Also the police are willing to escalate violently with one group but not the other.

I wonder if it's related to the fact that the protestors a few weeks ago were carrying lots of guns openly. I genuinely wonder what would happen if a majority the people protesting today were all carrying AR-15's
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