Twitter Will Allow Employees to Work at Home Forever • Hacker News Board

Re: Twitter Will Allow Employees to Work at Home Forever

#491

Post by topkai22 » Tue, May 12, 2020, 8:23 PM UTC

rdslw wrote: post #473

gregkerzhner wrote: post #356

I think if you work with a brilliant group of coworkers that you love to hangout out with, then you are lucky and I can see how you miss being in the office. But, thats not the case for many of us. The crux of work relationships is that they are not voluntary. You might get lucky and have ones you love, or you might get some that are distracting, or at worse, you dislike. Either way though you are stuck with them. I…

The current psychological consensus is that critical thing (one of three IIRC) to build friendships are repeated regular meetings/gatherings with (group of) people, forced by some external factor (school, gym, military, office, etc). WFH will strip 'friendship creation factor' from work. Definitely not to zero, but it will in effect reduce fun from work because 'working with friends' will be less often (unless you st…

I've been doing WFH for years. Some of my collegues I've never met in person. I still consider many of them "work-friends" and I feel satisfied with my work/social factor. We are still in repeated regular meetings, even if they are tele/video conference. In fact, thinking back to the last 3 in person teams I've worked with, I enjoy my job and team more with all of us WFH than in office.

The issue is not that you can't or won't develop work-friends on a distributed team, its that those work-friends have difficulty translating to "not work friends" because they may be in a different state/country than you and can't come over for a pizza and beer afterwards.

Re: Twitter Will Allow Employees to Work at Home Forever

#492

Post by und3rth3iP » Tue, May 12, 2020, 8:24 PM UTC

I wonder what this trend -- if it takes -- will mean for all these giant office buildings in downtown areas. How many companies simply won't be returning?

I've also seen the takes re: social distancing requiring larger office space, but why wouldn't companies just send their employees in in smaller, rotating groups?

Re: Twitter Will Allow Employees to Work at Home Forever

#493

Post by growlist » Tue, May 12, 2020, 8:31 PM UTC

chrismarlow9 wrote: post #412

For me too many companies use the "family" aspect of things too much. No, we're not a family. My family would let me sleep on their couch if I got fired or lost my home. Does the company plan to let me live in the office if they let me go? Are we still doing Thanksgiving? What about a family tree, whos going to keep that up after I die? But seriously, after seeing some nasty employee outcomes over a few jobs it kind…

We had something like this at work recently - a meeting in which all the benefits we enjoy were reiterated to us as if they were industry leading; not a single one of them in reality being significantly different to comparable roles elsewhere. So we have an app that can get me a free coffee once a month, wow awesome, I'll start planning that early retirement now with all the money I'm going to save shall I...

Re: Twitter Will Allow Employees to Work at Home Forever

#494

Post by und3rth3iP » Tue, May 12, 2020, 8:35 PM UTC

kevmo314 wrote: post #472

papito wrote: post #467

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"We are a family" is bullshit. You need to be a pretty egregious repeat offender to be ostracized from a real family. A company can fire you on a whim, simply because someone with a business degree sorted a spreadsheet with salaries in descending order, and you were in the top 20. The more correct analogy is a sports team. Everyone works well together to win the medal, but it's much more pragmatic in that sense. Perh…

I like the sports team analogy. The biggest gripe I have with some people is the "you are not my friend and will never be my friend" attitude because they have a strict work/life separation. It would be nice if more people instead thought of work like a sports team where the working together aspect could disappear overnight, but we're still friends.

I've worked with one of these people. Never attended a single off-site work event, even when it took place during work hours. And then he was shocked when he went for a promotion and it didn't happen. It was a topic of discussion among the management team and a big con on his pro/con list. Since it was a small company (25 people), it was decidedly weird he refused to take part in culture.

That said, culture shouldn't be forced. I think employees should be given multiple ways to participate to find a way that is most comfortable to them.

Re: Twitter Will Allow Employees to Work at Home Forever

#495

Post by teddyuk » Tue, May 12, 2020, 8:36 PM UTC

Ding ding, we have a winner now for the remaining 99.9% of corporations to follow suit and society will be positively impacted.

Remote working as a norm is the breakthrough that society needs.

Time spent with family, commuting cancelled, train, roads, busses, tubes reduced - if it doesn’t happen now, the next pandemic will.

Re: Twitter Will Allow Employees to Work at Home Forever

#496

Post by thaumasiotes » Tue, May 12, 2020, 8:36 PM UTC

prepperpotts wrote: post #410

jedberg wrote: post #377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think people get stuck in the mental construct of "office = socializing" therefore "no office = antisocial" Not all cultures are like this. I had a German coworker who would always complain about how much time we spend socializing at work (while socializing with us). He would tell us, "In Germany, we come to work, we put our heads down for seven hours and work, then we all go out and spend two hours drinking beer…

this is very similar to scandinavian cultures. in comparison, american work culture feels extremely centered around social interactions.

I don't see the contrast between

>> we all go out and spend two hours drinking beer together before we go home to our families

and

> in comparison, american work culture feels extremely centered around social interactions

Re: Twitter Will Allow Employees to Work at Home Forever

#497

Post by growlist » Tue, May 12, 2020, 8:38 PM UTC

It would take a heart of stone not to smile at the thought of all those employers that stubbornly refused to contemplate WFH suddenly discovering that they had no other choice. My hope is this turns into a wider trend, and those that want to be are allowed to be unshackled from the office for good.

Re: Twitter Will Allow Employees to Work at Home Forever

#498

Post by dogman144 » Tue, May 12, 2020, 8:38 PM UTC

papito wrote: post #467

chrismarlow9 wrote: post #412

For me too many companies use the "family" aspect of things too much. No, we're not a family. My family would let me sleep on their couch if I got fired or lost my home. Does the company plan to let me live in the office if they let me go? Are we still doing Thanksgiving? What about a family tree, whos going to keep that up after I die? But seriously, after seeing some nasty employee outcomes over a few jobs it kind…

"We are a family" is bullshit. You need to be a pretty egregious repeat offender to be ostracized from a real family. A company can fire you on a whim, simply because someone with a business degree sorted a spreadsheet with salaries in descending order, and you were in the top 20. The more correct analogy is a sports team. Everyone works well together to win the medal, but it's much more pragmatic in that sense. Perh…

I recently read Netflix's culture doc, and they outright said they treat employees like a sports team - welcome to the team, perform at your best, you may get benched, you may get cut. There's no shame in getting cut, and you should be proud that you had the talent to perform at our level for the time you did.

My main takeaway was: fair enough, and when can I get into that interview pipeline.

I want to be on a meat-eating, high performing team with comp to match, and I don't want much more. I think most in the industry are the same.

Re: Twitter Will Allow Employees to Work at Home Forever

#499

Post by 0xffff2 » Tue, May 12, 2020, 8:41 PM UTC

mjayhn wrote: post #140

fermienrico wrote: post #85

Then why pay $200k for a software engineer in the valley when the same talent can live outside of the bay area and can do with 1/3rd of the salary? The question I have is what portion of the $200k salary is 1) due to the raw talent of the individual 2) because they live in the bay area.

I wfh and I won't work for a company that bases my pay on my zipcode (Gitlab). I want complete flexibility on where I live. There are plenty of remote companies that don't do that, especially now post-covid. I wish more people would reject zip code COL so that companies starting to WFH don't just take Gitlabs idea of it.

>There are plenty of remote companies that don't do that

Care to name some?

Re: Twitter Will Allow Employees to Work at Home Forever

#500

Post by mulmen » Tue, May 12, 2020, 8:42 PM UTC

kevmo314 wrote: post #463

tibiahurried wrote: post #429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You nailed it! I never bought the "family" argument. Fully agree with you. Work is work. We are not family. I don't get it when I see people let go, writing extensive blog posts on how awesome the company "family" was yada yada. They let people go .. it means that they are only "family" for as long as it is beneficial for them. Real families don't work that way. So for younger folks out there. Don't drink the cool-ai…

> Real families don't work that way. I dunno, mine certainly does. My family extends only to where they're no longer toxic in my life. When they intrude and become a negative influence, I cut them out. My gripe with the antagonistic "work is not your family" approach is it sends the signal that the people I meet at work will never be my family. That kind of sucks. Sure, corporations cutting people out aren't very fam…

> My gripe with the antagonistic "work is not your family" approach is it sends the signal that the people I meet at work will never be my family.

This seems like a safe assumption? I guess you can marry a couple coworkers in the course of a career but how else are they going to become family?

I don't see that as antagonistic. Work isn't your family. The purpose and circumstances are entirely different. It doesn't mean throw all your coworkers under a bus but the relationship is fundamentally different.