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3.28M file for U.S. jobless benefits

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Re: 3.28M file for U.S. jobless benefits

#491

Post by ardy42 »

x0x0 wrote: post #385
devonkim wrote: post #357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, USDS and 18F folks would have to agree with you here. The arcane crap that we have to deal with in payment and government information systems is beyond frustrating and makes it extremely tough. I read an article about having to fix a multi-decade Cisco router bug to get CI/CD and automated deployments working after USDS / 18F started setting up faster deployments but still needed to figure out how to deal with l…

The point is that backend pain shouldn't stop you from accepting it on the front end and putting it into a queue. Making the problem of getting the application through backend systems the states' to deal with, not the applicants'.

> The point is that backend pain shouldn't stop you from accepting it on the front end and putting it into a queue.

What if the backend rejects the form? The user's already moved on before their form made it through the queue. So then you're stuck re-implementing all the validations the backend needs in order to give the user feedback (which you may not even be able to do) or trying to get the user to come back later to try again.

> Making the problem of getting the application through backend systems the states' to deal with, not the applicants'.

Reducing permanent staff involved in processing applications is probably one of the main reasons the automated system was built in the first place. If they still have to do that, then you might as well just replace the frontend with a printable PDF.

Re: 3.28M file for U.S. jobless benefits

#492

Post by marmaduke »

taylodl wrote: post #359
luma wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Further, unemployment benefits are managed by the states, and those states are running web services which typically see a few hundred hits a day. They are now trying to process tens of thousands of new records each day, and at least in MI the service is absolutely not up to the task. My wife managed to get her filing completed a little after 1am this morning. She was the only one of her 20 coworkers to successfully f…

Somewhere there is an architect saying "I told you so!" I can almost guarantee the requirement was to handle several hundred requests per day, an architect pointed out if we get deluged then we won't be able to handle it, so maybe they were able to get them to allow for one or two thousand requests per day. Now of course we don't know what the architecture of this system is and what the deltas in cost would have been…

Yes but for every architect there's an antiarchitect saying YAGNI!!1

Re: 3.28M file for U.S. jobless benefits

#494

Post by dang »

qqssccfftt wrote: post #308
rubber_duck wrote: post #35

And this is just the start. While I think the US response to Corona was slower than the response in my country I feel the US is the only country that's seriously discussing economic repercussions and debating the medical experts. In EU (at least in my country) it's doctors running things and we are in "stop the pandemic at all cost". Everyone is in panic due to Italy situation. But doctors are only trained to see the…

"How many people are we willing to kill to keep the economy moving?"

"Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith."

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: 3.28M file for U.S. jobless benefits

#495

Post by luckylion »

ntsplnkv2 wrote: post #462
lbeltrame wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately yes. Even if one wants to keep the quarantine at all costs, it should be a political decision, not only medical, after weighing everything. In Italy, where I'm in my third week being shut in, experts and doctors are being quoted tiredlessly by the news: the problem is that they're doing their job (which is good!) however they do not realize the impact of their suggested measures. Not their fault by any…

The fact is this is a good pandemic to practice on. We are very very lucky, to even be debating the economy right now. If this virus was far deadlier and affected young people, I think the tone on this very site would change in a heartbeat.

Sure, it's great practice, but practice that comes with heavy costs. And who knows when/where/if the next pandemic hits. If it's not within the next 10 years, the lessons may have been forgotten and the practice was expensive and useless.

Re: 3.28M file for U.S. jobless benefits

#496

Post by nwienert »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #459
devmunchies wrote: post #430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>somehow because this is seen as an external threat and not an internal blunder. Similar to 9/11. Countrymen tend to band together and support the leader when faced with a crisis, regardless of the leader.

What is particularly infuriating is this specific leader made it much worse by doing things like closing the pandemic response team a couple years ago and calling it a big Democratic hoax until recently. TBH, it's very difficult to look at that 538 chart and not come to the conclusion that a large portion of Americans are idiots. And I'm not even talking about whether or not they support Trump, I'm talking about how…

Your hoax remark is purely false. From the quite-liberal Snopes: "Despite creating some confusion with his remarks, Trump did not call the coronavirus itself a hoax."

He said Democrats were politicizing it, which is fair. It's obvious he was just playing politics as well, and also trying to keep people from panic-buying. Meanwhile, the border was already shut down with China, before February, far earlier than many other countries.

You're running around calling Americans idiots just like Hillary called them deplorables. Meanwhile you obviously are buying false narratives and pulling at selectively chosen data that affirms your narrative... all I'll say is, the problem may not be "Americans".

Re: 3.28M file for U.S. jobless benefits

#497

Post by dang »

sundaeofshock wrote: post #59
rubber_duck wrote: post #35

And this is just the start. While I think the US response to Corona was slower than the response in my country I feel the US is the only country that's seriously discussing economic repercussions and debating the medical experts. In EU (at least in my country) it's doctors running things and we are in "stop the pandemic at all cost". Everyone is in panic due to Italy situation. But doctors are only trained to see the…

Seriously? There were a number of submissions yesterday to HN discussing the relative merits of sacrificing millions for the sake of the market. Perhaps you missed those?

Please don't take HN threads further into flamewar. Especially not on the topic of this most stressful and difficult moment.

If you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the spirit of this site when posting here, we'd be grateful. Examples:

"Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive."

"Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith."

Re: 3.28M file for U.S. jobless benefits

#498

Post by big_chungus »

jahaja wrote: post #198
big_chungus wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The worst-case projection is 1.7 million: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/13/us/coronavirus-deaths-est... . If the media hadn't spent weeks fearmongering and spinning this as some killer exotic plague (rather than something that hits at-risk populations much harder but is survivable for most others). Only a few percent of younger people have needed intensive care. It won't make too much of a difference anyway; we'll…

This might be the most unethical thread I've ever read on HN, and that takes a lot. Shame on you.

Where do you get that conclusion? You think crashing the economy won't hurt people?

> Shame on you.

Seriously?

Re: 3.28M file for U.S. jobless benefits

#499

Post by torpfactory »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #459
devmunchies wrote: post #430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>somehow because this is seen as an external threat and not an internal blunder. Similar to 9/11. Countrymen tend to band together and support the leader when faced with a crisis, regardless of the leader.

What is particularly infuriating is this specific leader made it much worse by doing things like closing the pandemic response team a couple years ago and calling it a big Democratic hoax until recently. TBH, it's very difficult to look at that 538 chart and not come to the conclusion that a large portion of Americans are idiots. And I'm not even talking about whether or not they support Trump, I'm talking about how…

One of the key issues in American politics is epistemic. Many voters on the right will not receive any information about just how badly the initial response was bungled. There is a relatively closed media ecosystem of TV, web, and social media which completely blots out truth with conspiracy theories, half truths, lies of omission, or whataboutism.

Many of these people really truly believe they are well informed and also believe themselves to be true patriots. How this dynamic can be changed is beyond me and it is deeply problematic.

Re: 3.28M file for U.S. jobless benefits

#500

Post by econcon »

sundaeofshock wrote: post #59
rubber_duck wrote: post #35

And this is just the start. While I think the US response to Corona was slower than the response in my country I feel the US is the only country that's seriously discussing economic repercussions and debating the medical experts. In EU (at least in my country) it's doctors running things and we are in "stop the pandemic at all cost". Everyone is in panic due to Italy situation. But doctors are only trained to see the…

Seriously? There were a number of submissions yesterday to HN discussing the relative merits of sacrificing millions for the sake of the market. Perhaps you missed those?

If world runs out of food supply or other important products, then the "young people who don't have any underlying disease" will also die.
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