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Office noise bothers some people more than others

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Re: Office noise bothers some people more than others

#491

I work at home in a very quiet neighborhood with excellent sound insulation and a silent PC. My home office is very, very quiet. I consider this a great luxury of life well-lived. Then someone bought the empty lot next door and started building a house. I ordered these 3M X5A earmuffs for $30. They are remarkably effective and proved to be a terrific investment. https://smile.amazon.com/3M-Peltor-Over-Earmuffs-X5A/dp…

I recently start working in an office that has a constant ventilation noise right above my head. I use a pair of headphones that are pretty good and I sometimes use those with no music to block out the noise. You’ve just given me a great advice. Thank you! Do you have a recommendation for headphones with similar usage? Mine are about to go out (left headset) and I know I’ll be in a need of new ones soon.

There are generally three ways to suppress noise:

1. Noise masking - covering the external sound with another sound.

2. Noise blocking - sealing the ears so the external sound doesn't get through.

3. Noise canceling - active noise canceling technology which listens to external sound with a microphone and adds an inverted waveform to cancel it.

I use all three and they all work depending on the scenario and my preferences at the moment. The most effective noise-masking type is in-ear buds because they also provide noise blocking. I have an earlier version similar to these https://smile.amazon.com/Etymotic-Research-Noise-Isolating-E.... They are very effective and provide great sound. However, noise masking is usually only a shorter-duration option for me if I'm trying to work or otherwise focus because sounds tend to distract me even if it's ambient music I like or white/pink noise. Thus, trading an uncontrolled soundscape for a controlled one isn't always ideal for me. Some people also find in-ear styles less comfortable due to inserting in the ear canal.

For noise-blocking I use the X5A over-ear muffs that I linked above when at my home office desk. The upsides are high effectiveness and they come on and off quickly compared to in-ear plugs. Downsides are that they are too bulky to travel and over longer periods the clamping pressure can on occasion grow slightly fatiguing. This can be mitigated by bending the joining U-arm that goes over the top to stretch it a bit wider, possibly at the cost of slightly less noise-blocking. Long-duration comfort will depend on your particular ear and head shape but they work well for me. A general downside of over-ear style muffs is they can get in the way when sleeping if you're a side-sleeper.

When away from my desk I use foam in-ear plugs for noise-blocking because they are small and light. The biggest downside is that they take a bit of time to "install" properly for full effectiveness. They need to be compressed into a smaller tube shape by rolling them tightly between the fingers and then quickly inserted deep into the ear canal. Once in place they will slowly re-expand blocking external sound very effectively. If they are inserted properly, they can take a bit of time and care to remove. This is because they can create an air-tight vacuum seal in the ear canal and yanking them out quickly can be unpleasant.

I've tried many different brands of foam in-ears and these are the highest-rated for noise reduction (NRR 33) https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00IL9MRLC. They are also comfortable for me but this will vary by person. My wife has smaller or more sensitive ear canals and prefers smaller in-ear plugs. That link has several sub-types and I keep a pair of both the plain and the corded type in my backpack when on the go. The plain type is good for sleeping whether on an airplane or when I check into a hotel at 3a and the last room they have sounds like it's inches from a highway, railyard, rock concert or airport runway. The corded type is easier/quicker to remove because they have the cord to pull on but the downside is the cord can occasionally conduct a bit of noise via vibration into the ear when it brushes against things. This style also has the benefit of the bright blue cord providing a visual cue to others that I have something in my ears and may not hear them if they talk to me. This is good when I'm in an open environment, coffee shop or restaurant. Unlike over-ears, in-ears also give me the flexibility to vary the amount of noise reduction by changing how deeply I seat them.

Finally, there are the active noise canceling variety. This type is especially well-suited for environments with constant background noise that's not overly loud, for example, airplane engines and office hubbub. I find them somewhat less effective at reducing loud primary sources like a person talking loudly next to you. They still will reduce the noise substantially but usually not eliminate it. Often the combination of ambient music, soundscapes or pink noise on low volume plus the active noise canceling is sufficient but not always. I have these https://smile.amazon.com/Bose-718840-0010-QuietComfort-Cance... and they work extraordinarily well. Downsides are that they are wired and have a small battery at the plug end of the cord. This is because active noise canceling requires constant DSP cycles and is thus power-hungry.

I haven't yet added wireless earbuds with active noise canceling (ANC) to my options. As of today, these tend to either have shorter battery life, less effective ANC or be high-cost. This is an example of good but expensive https://smile.amazon.com/Sony-WF-1000XM3-Industry-Canceling-.... I think the wireless ANC tech is still evolving too quickly to sink a lot of money in a pair. Also, I've previously misplaced a pair of cheap wireless earbuds which makes me more cautious. The MediaTek chipset that Sony uses is new and quite powerful but, fortunately, starting to be offered to other manufacturers (under MediaTek subsidiary's name) so I expect next year we'll see some of the well-regarded Chi-Fi vendors with sub-$100 options. I do have cheap (~$40) Chi-Fi wireless earbuds (non-ANC) that have excellent quality when external noise reduction isn't a priority.

In case you're not aware, there are also specialty earplugs designed to attenuate certain frequencies more than others. These are targeted primarily at performing musicians and concert-goers and often marketed under the term "Acoustic Filters" https://smile.amazon.com/s?k="acoustic+filters". These were previously quite expensive and could involve custom-fitted molds but prices have come down recently. I highly recommend using these when at concerts or clubs. Hearing loss sucks and is easily mitigated.

Hope that helps.

Re: Office noise bothers some people more than others

#492

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This baffles me. There are so many alternatives to working for a startup with no real office in a dense, expensive city.

Yes, you can also work for an established company with cramped offices in a dense, expensive city. Or you can take a massive pay cut, tank your career, and go live in the middle of nowhere. Sounds great.

RedHat's office is in downtown Raleigh. It's not in the middle of nowhere and it's also not a dense, expensive city.

Re: Office noise bothers some people more than others

#493

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This baffles me. There are so many alternatives to working for a startup with no real office in a dense, expensive city.

Yes, you can also work for an established company with cramped offices in a dense, expensive city. Or you can take a massive pay cut, tank your career, and go live in the middle of nowhere. Sounds great.

Sometimes the (paycheck - cost of living) nets you more money in the smaller city.

Re: Office noise bothers some people more than others

#494
post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, just not we-work. The only thing that’s free is the instant coffee and milk.

Have you considered working at a public library instead? Some have quiet reading rooms that I find are often suitable for working in peace.

I do that on weekends when the noise at home is too much and before the kids come in for reading time at the library.

Re: Office noise bothers some people more than others

#495
post #487

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are plenty of companies without open layouts, add remote workers to that and self selection is a big factor. Add to that the possibility that people aren't comfortable complaining to someone who is very obviously pro open layout. Also every survey I can find says that employees don't want open office layouts by a large margin. There's clearly something else going on beyond autistic programmers complaining.

I don't know why AmericanChopper keeps getting modded down; his points are absolutely valid. I'm not a fan of open offices either, but I've worked in a bunch of different places over the years, and he's right on many points. There aren't many places left that don't have open offices of some kind, and I have not met many people who complained about them. Usually, I'm the biggest complainer. I would take surveys with a…

>I don't know why AmericanChopper keeps getting modded down

They're getting modded down because the argument is: people don't complain to me about open offices, therefore everyone is happy with open office layouts except people with autism.

> There aren't many places left that don't have open offices of some kind

Depends on what you mean by open office. Not many places have dedicated private offices for each developer, but cubicles, small team rooms, temporary private spaces etc... are very common.

>I have not met many people who complained about them. Usually, I'm the biggest complainer. I would take surveys with a grain of salt; of course complainers like me are going to be happy to voice their opinions in surveys like this, while other people probably don't bother taking the survey.

So take surveys with a grain of salt, but not anecdotal evidence? It's much more likely that you're suffering from selection and confirmation bias than it is that every survey I can find online is. We're not talking about online polls open to anyone, but randomized samples. Here's one where they hired an independent research agency that randomly sampled over 4k adults in the US. 66% of the office workers want a closed office layout. That's a huge margin--big enough to overcome any minor issues with the survey. And definitely stronger evidence than 2 people on hacker news saying that people don't complain to them.

https://files.getroom.com/ROOM-2018-Open-Office-Woes-Report....

> In my view, Americans are just loud and extroverted in general, and this extends to the current workers in this field.

You are definitely suffering from confirmation bias here.

Also basically every study that has been done on open office layouts shows that it's detrimental to business and moral.

Re: Office noise bothers some people more than others

#496
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A game in the background provides structure to the noise and, for me, makes "random" background noise more tolerable and ignorable, the same mechanism that helps me focus when I'm listening to regular music. The thing about offices is that in my experience it's unstructured, so anything that can catch my ear might require my attention, and that takes a lot of focus away from the thing I'm actually trying to do. That…

Likewise. I've worked almost exclusively out of cafes for the past twenty years. I find it akin to white noise.

At least for me, that's because you can focus with the knowledge that the background noise will never require your attention. The same is not true for open offices, which is where it breaks down for me. Any voice I hear could be trying to get my attention, and I have to pay attention to it in order to realize that it doesn't.

Re: Office noise bothers some people more than others

#497

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A few days ago, my adjacent coworker started cracking and eating eggs in whatever form they can be cracked and eaten as a solid. I was repulsed for obvious reasons, and angry because of the sound. It seems like a comedy

Are you talking about hard-boiled eggs?

I don't eat them myself, so I'd guess hardboiled ya. There is one way to do it that makes the shell soft I believe.

Re: Office noise bothers some people more than others

#498

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, you can also work for an established company with cramped offices in a dense, expensive city. Or you can take a massive pay cut, tank your career, and go live in the middle of nowhere. Sounds great.

Hahaha, you think companies in the middle of nowhere don't have cramped, noisy open offices?

Some do. Mine doesn't. I work in an Indianapolis suburb, all devs have their own offices with real doors, and we work at home about 50% of the time (in our large quiet houses).

You can easily make 150k in this environment, where a 250k home is 3k sqft in a good neighborhood. I'm making quite a bit more in the management/director track.

Re: Office noise bothers some people more than others

#499
post #462

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hammer away at a cherry blue keyboard at work. No one has complained so far but I suspect it is because I have been here for longer than them.

It's actually a worry of mine that I'm very annoying to those around me in my open office and people are too polite or see me as too intimidating to say anything about it. I can either be the asshole who doesn't care, and subsequently be freed from my anxiety, or live in anxiety but at least not be as much of an asshole.

If sound was an issue then the business shouldn't have made an open Office design.

Re: Office noise bothers some people more than others

#500
post #462

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's actually a worry of mine that I'm very annoying to those around me in my open office and people are too polite or see me as too intimidating to say anything about it. I can either be the asshole who doesn't care, and subsequently be freed from my anxiety, or live in anxiety but at least not be as much of an asshole.

If sound was an issue then the business shouldn't have made an open Office design.

Sound is one of those “incalculable” issues that, because it’s very intangible how it affects people it is subsequently difficult to put a dollar amount to fixing.
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