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Match.com Used Fake Ads to Swindle Users, F.T.C. Says

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491–500 of 508 posts

Re: Match.com Used Fake Ads to Swindle Users, F.T.C. Says

#491
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post #345

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Average looking shouldn't be a problem to most people. Just don't look for people who want to date models. Use a dating site that focuses on content and interest rather than looks. But even if you're somewhere where the initial decision has to be made based on a photo, you can make that photo interesting. I met my wife on a dating site 13 years ago (a small, cheap one focused specifically on Christians), and although…

You've been off the market for 13 years and have no clue how much things have changed.

That's entirely possible, but at the same time, I don't think the nature of people themselves changes so fundamentally. Culture and customs change, but not everybody wants to go along with that.

Re: Match.com Used Fake Ads to Swindle Users, F.T.C. Says

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That's the idea behind bumble. AFAIK men and women rate each other similarly to Tinder (yes/no). However, when a match occurs, women have to send the first message. This doesn't solve the gender inbalance though. This problem is much more difficult to solve, and requires further homogenization (?) of the male and female gender role. This should be one of the more important challenges of our time. Lonelyness and sexua…

Given how most men just swipe right 100% of the time to find the women who swiped right on them, I’m surprised there isn’t a dating app that has just admitted to this and made the matching unilateral: men would be assumed to be okay with matching any woman, whereas women would have to swipe right on a dude to “match.” Then either party could contact. It’s sort of like Bumble’s attitude, just moved one step forward in…

> "men would be assumed to be okay with matching any woman"

That assumption might be correct for some men, but certainly not for all, and I would expect not even for most.

In any case, requiring men to swipe right first doesn't hurt the process in any way. And requiring both sides to agree to contact makes a lot of sense.

Re: Match.com Used Fake Ads to Swindle Users, F.T.C. Says

#493
post #375

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One simple technique a dating website could use to “disrupt” this market, without doing the only-women-can-contact thing, would be just to disallow men (or anyone) from sending messages with the same content as any message that person has sent previously.

So now I have to find new and unique ways to explain what I do for a living or where I live? > So where are you from? > Austin, Texa^H^H^H^H^H^H^H > Uh... the capital of Texarcana

The point is to require people to put some effort in their first message and make it personal to the person they're messaging, so they won't simply spam every person they can find with identical pick-up lines.

I like the idea.

Re: Match.com Used Fake Ads to Swindle Users, F.T.C. Says

#494

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I never said it is harming men. I just said that the rules are gender-based. What made you think that? I find it an interesting thought exercise to understand why society apply rules differently in certain situations. Context certainly plays an important role here and I feel like you made a good point around harm. EDIT I feel like sometimes this is a sensitive topic to discuss broadly within Western society. From my…

To me I've always run in liberal circles do it feels like your assumptions of the philosophy are off in my experience. I've met very few of those sorts of fundamentalists (literally only 2 ever), most people are more into dismantling the systematic forms of oppression and therefore prioritize things that actually harm people.

I feel like I was making an observation rather than outlining a philosophy. Secondly, I feel that my observations are not quite aligned with the liberal status quo so that may be why they are "off" in your experience. I also agree that most liberals are reasonable people and there are only a few outliers.

The fact that you thought that I said Bumble was harming men and the way you identified my thoughts as a 'philosophy' as opposed to an observation to me speaks directly to point I was making in my previous post albeit you come across as someone who listens and is reasonable.

Re: Match.com Used Fake Ads to Swindle Users, F.T.C. Says

#495
post #489

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> Well that's the wrong approach right there. I'm glad to serve the needs of the other person, but I'll not approach someone with this mindset at the beginning (like sales people have to do). And how is it working for you? Because this seems to be the approach advocated and practiced by the "nice guys" who complain that they can't get a date. > You walk up to someone, start opening your mouth for a word, and they swi…

Would you please stop posting flamebaity, unsubstantive comments to HN? You've been doing it a lot lately, and it's too much. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Sure, I will stop.

Re: Match.com Used Fake Ads to Swindle Users, F.T.C. Says

#496
post #486

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there's a phrase I use to remind myself of reality when I go down these thought paths: >Men are afraid that women will laugh at them. Women are afraid that men will kill them. Remind yourself the demographics who overwhelmingly commit violent crimes, especially domestic abuse, when considering relationship dynamics. Eliminating violent domestic abuse by men would help bring equity this situation.

Simple counterarguments: gay and lesbian culture. If fear of romantic socializing were something correctly calibrated by knowledge of violent tendencies of your potential partners, then gay men would be just as afraid of asking other men out as women are—because, of course, there's the same probability of a male stranger to turn out to be a homicidal maniac, whether you're a man or a woman asking out that male strang…

I see you're making a lot of sweeping generalizations about groups of people. Could you provide any evidence?

Re: Match.com Used Fake Ads to Swindle Users, F.T.C. Says

#497
post #492
post #377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given how most men just swipe right 100% of the time to find the women who swiped right on them, I’m surprised there isn’t a dating app that has just admitted to this and made the matching unilateral: men would be assumed to be okay with matching any woman, whereas women would have to swipe right on a dude to “match.” Then either party could contact. It’s sort of like Bumble’s attitude, just moved one step forward in…

> "men would be assumed to be okay with matching any woman" That assumption might be correct for some men, but certainly not for all, and I would expect not even for most. In any case, requiring men to swipe right first doesn't hurt the process in any way. And requiring both sides to agree to contact makes a lot of sense.

No, not for all; but it’s an assumption, it doesn’t have to be true. Bumble itself assumes that women will ever bother to make the first move, even though most women won’t. That assumption just means that Bumble draws in an audience of the people who fit that assumption, and pushes away the people who don’t. It’s serving a niche more particular than “everybody.” If you’re a woman with social anxiety who just wishes someone would help you get over your mental block around striking up a conversation? Bumble might not be for you.

(But, to be clear, this assumption isn’t that men are okay with dating any woman interested in them; allowing-to-message doesn’t imply interest. The real assumption here is that, while the average woman sees a spammed message of interest as an annoying bit of desperation, the average man will see that same message as an esteem-boost (“hey, someone actually contacted me on this website!”) even if they are just as unlikely to engage with it. In other words, the assumption is that men are more okay with receiving spam from women, than women are okay with receiving spam from men; and so that a site that favours men receiving spam from women will have less churn than a website that favours women receiving spam.)

> requiring men to swipe right first doesn’t hurt the process in any way

I see you’ve never actually tried to enact a “swipe right 100% of the time” policy: it’s tiring, and also, apps have daily limits on how many likes you can give, precisely because this forces this rote “engagement” with the app to turn into a daily return to the app to continue swiping.

There are actually other apps, built to directly submit batched “like” API calls to these app’s backends, in order to avoid doing what is basically “work” every day (just in order to allow people who have already expressed interest in you to send an initial message to you!) And these services do everything they can to kill these auto-like apps, because they want to make men go through this pointless work, because it “fosters engagement” (i.e. makes their DAUs look better, and increases the chances someone will get fed up with running out of likes—because it turned out nobody in this batch had already seen+swiped right on them—and so pay for Gold to be able to continue swiping right.)

I guess, if you’re speaking in a game-theoretic sense, then yes, the same equilibrium state is achieved either way, because men are willing to go through a lot of pointless “work” to meet women. (You could probably build a Tinder-like app where men have to solve a CAPTCHA every time they swipe right, and use this to power a botnet.) But in an economic sense, you’re introducing a lot of inefficiency; these men could be doing other stuff with their time. (And women would prefer they do; what’s less interesting than a guy who spends all his time trying to hook up?)

> Requiring both sides to agree to contact makes a lot of sense.

No, allowing either side a choice to first have to verify the other side before they can make contact, makes a lot of sense. Requiring it is just a dark pattern. Even Facebook has the option to allow others to “reach out to you” with a message when you haven’t added them yet. It’s an option; you can disable it; but it’s on by default, and not that many people disable it.

Isn’t it weird that the current popular model for online dating is more paternalistic (“you can’t have a default-allow policy even if you want it”) than our current model for regular social networking?

Re: Match.com Used Fake Ads to Swindle Users, F.T.C. Says

#498
post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, apparently they had a stock line they used when customers paid them money to try and view those messages that were sent by fake accounts, got a message saying the account was unavailable instead (because it had been deleted for being fraudulent), and complained to Match.com that they thought they'd been swindled: "Please be assured, Match.com does not send members misleading notifications, e-mails or winks profe…

> That is impressively scummy. It's also indistinguishable from every other company doing business.

CRAPitalism at its finest!

Re: Match.com Used Fake Ads to Swindle Users, F.T.C. Says

#499

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What would you change if you were to build a new dating app to disrupt the market?

Disincentivise shallow profiles. Women Tinder profiles are a very good example of antithesis: there are a few carefully selected pictures. The more involved profiles may feature link to an Instagram (with more carefully-picked pictures) and a few lines that rarely offer anything to construct a personal introductory message. Turn that around completely. Have users put in effort in being found. I doubt that would get m…

Arguably that's already the case for men. Poor pictures and a terrible profile pic is not going to get you many matches. To do well on Tinder, have a photog friend shoot some semi-professional SLR-shot profile pics, have someone help you write the text in your profile, and you'll do much better. FWIW, the same goes for any woman who's less-than-model-hot, (for mainstream, culture-centric definitions of beauty).

Thing is, for the beautiful people, all they need is one really good picture, and a pizza emoji as their profile text, and they're all set. Unless you hide profile pictures (which tbf, okcupid tried for a brief second) I don't see a way to change that.

Re: Match.com Used Fake Ads to Swindle Users, F.T.C. Says

#500

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yep its cause women dont have to do any work they just get chats all the time from guys but its so bad now because women are competing for the top 5% of men who are like models and everyone else gets no response

An honest question: Do you have any evidence to back up this claim? I keep hearing this claim, but I haven’t see any solid science or other data supporting it. My understanding is that women are more picky than men about who they find attractive, but less picky about who they will message and respond to.

yea okcupid did a test and showed it then tinder did a test and its even worse now

https://medium.com/@worstonlinedater/tinder-experiments-ii-g...

https://twitter.com/paperclique/status/1087579317809246210

https://twitter.com/devonzuegel/status/1087575749949673472

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