Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Richard M. Stallman resigns

fsf.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

491–500 of 1001 posts

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#491

Post by ralfd »

sp332 wrote: post #69
iamnothere wrote: post #43

RMS was defending Minsky, awkwardly. As someone who has a history of social awkwardness, he should be forgiven for this. He's been a good steward of the FSF, which has doing important work in the service of free (read: non-backdoored) hardware lately. I know there are good people still at the FSF, but I can only hope they are as incorruptible and dogged as RMS. The way this attack came suddenly out of the depths make…

Forgiving someone doesn't mean letting them keep positions of power or avoid accountability.

What does forgiving mean?

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#492

Post by robocat »

bigbugbag wrote: post #470
accntwithnoname wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This wasn't a witch hunt. This should have happened a long time ago. He is a creep, and has been problematic for years. “He literally used to have a mattress on the floor of his office. He kept the door to his office open, to proudly showcase that mattress and all the implications that went with it. Many female students avoided the corridor with his office for that reason…I was one of the course 6 undergrads who avoi…

If you read the medium post the author admits she had no idea who Stallman is and that it was not really about him, and instead of admitting she was wrong on several point she went on and digged some stuff and put them together trying to paint RMS in a way that fit her accusation and her call for his removal. Coming from someone who admits to have written out of anger accumulated from different personal experience, a…

Wow, she's just compiled a hit list and blogged about it: "if I had to ever be in the same room with Richard Stallman, how I would handle it, and how I could keep myself composed.".

I'm pretty sure we could assassinate the character of anyone that started writing on the internet before we knew it was going on your permanent record.

Perhaps Richard is a heel, but he doesn't deserve unaccountable bullying and mob justice.

Where is the accountability for the publications and bloggers portraying him to be a rapist apologist?

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#493

Post by lazyjones »

robocat wrote: post #207
noelsusman wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Saying we wouldn't have anyone left in power of they were held up to this standard seems more damning to our current power structure than the moral standard at play here

The underlying moral story of all this is: 1. If you are attacked by the media, you will lose in the court of public opinion (I expect we wouldn't know about this at all except for the egregiously misleading "news" headlines). 2. Never ever discuss toxic topics (particularly if you are either a little odd, or politically weak). 3. If you publically question anything about a witch hunt, you too will be branded as a wi…

5. if you are a libertarian, better be always prepared for the SJW zombie apocalypse...

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#494

Post by miracle2k »

wnoise wrote: post #116
jimrandomh wrote: post #8

Before jumping to criticize Stallman, be aware: there is a big difference between what today's round of headlines claim Stallman wrote, and what he actually wrote. Given the relatively clear-cut nature of the lies the press has told about him, I think he ought to be suing for libel.

He'd have a very hard time winning. In many jurisdictions there is a "substantial truth" doctrine: if a statement gives an impression that's substantially close to the truth, it's considered OK, even if technically false. Once you add in how many people typically react to this sort of thing... http://www.dmlp.org/legal-guide/substantial-truth

The claim "he defended Epstein and says his victims were willing", as for example the Vice article writes, is not substantially close to the truth. It is false absolutely.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#495

Post by ganzuul »

proy24 wrote: post #361
kfrzcode wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm hesitant to post anything, anywhere, just because I don't want to offend anyone by expressing an earnest opinion. I think the trend's moving more quickly towards self-censorship than anyone realizes. How can we even quantify that? Those who censor just disappear? What stands out for me is the obvious monoculture we're developing. I miss custom PHPBB boards for every little interest and opinion.

I think what is perceived by a community as right or wrong changes as the composition of the community changes...I mean Trump doesn't self-censor because he reflects the values of his broader base and his base eats up whatever he says....RMS' hugs and kisses, free love, anything goes attitude might have been ok during the hippie era of the 70s and 80s during the formative years of his career but does not reflect the…

Ironic how in the subject of moderation in self-censorship someone with an upopular opinion gets suppressed.

I really wish you'd have to write a reason when downvoting.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#496

Post by kelnos »

ukj wrote: post #377
journalctl wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn’t call “not actively espousing hateful or bigoted views” “self-censorship”. And if people are afraid to be hateful or creepy in public, I’d call that a win. You don’t get to proclaim the advantages of chattel slavery and be magically immune from everyone’s responses, and afterwards you can’t complain about self-censorship when you think twice about writing or saying something abhorrent.

I am afraid to be mis-interpreted as hateful or bigoted, and have to spend an inordinate amount of time/effort either choosing my words for my audience (which is really hard on the internet with such a broad audience) or correcting knee-jerk responses. The general over-reaction and constant jousting at windmills seems like a net loss to me. I am forced to exercise self-censorship.

I agree with this, at least. It is very easy to be misunderstood in a textual medium like the internet, where people have very little (or no) context about you or how you express yourself.

You call your solution self-censorship, but I just kinda think it's general common sense: why do you feel the need to broadcast your views to a large, unknown audience on controversial subjects where misunderstandings cause a lot of trouble for you? There are plenty of other real-world places to discuss things that don't carry that risk, and likely some more-private places on the internet where you can join an actual community of people who will get to know you over time and understand what you say in context.

Put another way: most people wouldn't randomly walk up to a group of 10 strangers on the street and immediately bring up a controversial topic. Why do we think that's a good move on the internet?

I think we're starting to see the social limits of instant around-the-world communication. It just doesn't work as well as we want it to. The internet is still ridiculously new to the world, and our understanding of its social nuances is still in its infancy.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#497

Post by jacobush »

gojomo wrote: post #412
csb6 wrote: post #378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The wrong opinion? Stallman questions whether the victim, who he admits was coerced into sex, was actually sexually assaulted. This is an incredibly shameful take on the situation. If any politician or public figure said this statement in the past 70 years, they would have ended their career. There are no Internet vigilantes hunting down dissenters. There are people trying to downplay sexual assault. As the internet…

I didn't read RMS's "take" as in any way excusing what happened to Giuffre, but rather disputing whether it was accurate to accuse Marvin Minsky of "sexual assault", if from Minsky's perspective at the time nothing seemed wrong. (Sensationalist reporting and selective paraphrasing, like you've done here, has conflated the two issues.) Suppose there's a boxer, "Joe", and he has a scheduled fight against a named oppone…

RMS's take was really dumb. He may not be the right fit for the job. The example you gave with the boxer was a really good comparison, but for him to handle the topic that way is so incredibly tone-deaf and frankly, stupid.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#498

Post by steveeq1 »

darkwater wrote: post #467
naringas wrote: post #114

it's rather interesting how all the information technology (social media, etc...) is slowly moving our culture towards increasing self-censorship. One has to have the right opinion or stay quiet. Having the wrong opinion about certain topics is getting more expensive. Stay away from taboos or else... never mind the fact that what we regard as wrong changes across different societies over time. Weirdly all the informa…

I'm quite certain that in '50s USA there were almost no problem saying racist comments and jokes in front of a public audience, but decades later there were. And I guess people from those same '50s were complaining during this change period that they could not express their opinions freely.

You can apply the same reasoning to rappers today, yet there is no public outrage.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#499

Post by jeegsy »

naringas wrote: post #114

it's rather interesting how all the information technology (social media, etc...) is slowly moving our culture towards increasing self-censorship. One has to have the right opinion or stay quiet. Having the wrong opinion about certain topics is getting more expensive. Stay away from taboos or else... never mind the fact that what we regard as wrong changes across different societies over time. Weirdly all the informa…

Having the wrong opinion about certain topics is getting more expensive

This is an excellent point. More and more, there is no middle ground in consequences. Nothing like a suspension? or leave of absence etc. I don't recall how things used to be but I really lament the lack of some sort of gradient scale for punishment.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#500

Post by nguoi »

dexen wrote: post #447

Just as much as RMS was right[1], ESR was right[2]. The "cancel culture" is harming the free software movement by practicing human version of Microsoft's EEE[3]. The cancel culture enters the community, establishes interests groups, and starts knocking down prominent contributors. The demands are backed by angry crowds on social media rather than by contributions. It's time for us to defend each other, and to hold co…

This has nothing to do with 'SJWs' unless you're implying that 'statutory rape is bad' is a political stance of the far-left. I think it's much more likely you're clinging to buzzwords.
Post reply on HN