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Python Is Eating the World

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Re: Python Is Eating the World

#491

Post by gwd »

Ensorceled wrote: post #477
botto wrote: post #471

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't it also just as much about Python is having it's day, granted a day long in the waiting but many langs go through this (Ruby, PHP) and then it tapers off and the next language has it's day. Probably Go will be the next hotness in 5 years.

Maybe, I love Go but I'm not sure it's the next "hot" thing, all the recent "hot" languages have been scripting languages PHP, Ruby, Python, JS ... I'd say JS and Python are currently jockeying for that position.

> all the recent "hot" languages have been scripting languages

All the languages you list are over 20 years old. I think the popularity of Go and Rust show that statically-typed languages are having a resurgence.

As a long-time C programmer (with significant bits of bash and perl on the side), I've really enjoyed learning Go. But the responsiveness to developing new language features has been _sooo sloooow_. We'll have to see in 10 years if this turns out to have been a wise decision or not.

Re: Python Is Eating the World

#492

Post by mises »

botto wrote: post #471
Ensorceled wrote: post #436

Holy Crap! What a lot of irrational, hyperbolic hate for Python. I think everybody should spend their first couple of years working in Fortran IV on IBM TSO/ISPF. No dependency management because you had to write everything yourself. Or maybe [edit: early 90's] C or C++ development where dependency management meant getting packages off a Usenet archive, uudecoding and compiling them yourself after tweaking the config…

Isn't it also just as much about Python is having it's day, granted a day long in the waiting but many langs go through this (Ruby, PHP) and then it tapers off and the next language has it's day. Probably Go will be the next hotness in 5 years.

Yes and no. Go has its applications, but is not built to replace python but rather to be a better c. That overlaps with the "easy code" part and not much else. Glue code, application scripting, etc. are python's strengths, and I don't see those going away.

Re: Python Is Eating the World

#493

Post by JustSomeNobody »

Ensorceled wrote: post #436

Holy Crap! What a lot of irrational, hyperbolic hate for Python. I think everybody should spend their first couple of years working in Fortran IV on IBM TSO/ISPF. No dependency management because you had to write everything yourself. Or maybe [edit: early 90's] C or C++ development where dependency management meant getting packages off a Usenet archive, uudecoding and compiling them yourself after tweaking the config…

I hate hammers with soft grip handles, but my current job is forcing me to use one. They're so mean. I prefer hammers with wood handles.

Oooh look, there's a hammer over there with a modern handle. I want that. I don't like wood anymore.

Re: Python Is Eating the World

#494

Post by geofft »

edflsafoiewq wrote: post #226
geofft wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks, that definitely looks like useful data as a starting point. 1. What is the impact of a continuous long-running process? That is, if instead of trying to calculate a result and then shut down, I'm running a web server 24/7, what's the impact of an interpreted language over a compiled language? (Assume requests are few and I'm happy with performance with either.) This not models web servers but things like data…

> Put another way, if using the interpreted language saved even one minute of developer time, it was a net win for the carbon emissions of the program Developers continue breathing even when they aren't programming.

Correct, and computers continue running. I'm referring to the carbon emissions of the development project itself. The faster the development is done, the sooner you can get on with developing other things.

Re: Python Is Eating the World

#495

Post by w8rbt »

martpie wrote: post #486
Ensorceled wrote: post #436

Holy Crap! What a lot of irrational, hyperbolic hate for Python. I think everybody should spend their first couple of years working in Fortran IV on IBM TSO/ISPF. No dependency management because you had to write everything yourself. Or maybe [edit: early 90's] C or C++ development where dependency management meant getting packages off a Usenet archive, uudecoding and compiling them yourself after tweaking the config…

Famous one: > There are two kind of languages: the ones everybody hates, and the ones nobody uses.

Slightly wrong. Here's the original:

"There are only two kinds of languages: the ones people complain about and the ones nobody uses."

Bjarne Stroustrup's FAQ: Did you really say that?. Retrieved on 2007-11-15.

Re: Python Is Eating the World

#496

Post by syntex »

botto wrote: post #471
Ensorceled wrote: post #436

Holy Crap! What a lot of irrational, hyperbolic hate for Python. I think everybody should spend their first couple of years working in Fortran IV on IBM TSO/ISPF. No dependency management because you had to write everything yourself. Or maybe [edit: early 90's] C or C++ development where dependency management meant getting packages off a Usenet archive, uudecoding and compiling them yourself after tweaking the config…

Isn't it also just as much about Python is having it's day, granted a day long in the waiting but many langs go through this (Ruby, PHP) and then it tapers off and the next language has it's day. Probably Go will be the next hotness in 5 years.

Actually, Golang isn't so great. Try to change something lower level, for example in their socket implementation. Also, it's trying to promise a sane concurrency and all code I've seen use mutex all over the place.

Re: Python Is Eating the World

#497

Post by busfahrer »

fearface wrote: post #452
blaisio wrote: post #33

Python has a lot of problems that really slow down development, but they are all fixable. The biggest issue, in my opinion, is in dependency management. Python has a horrible dependency management system, from top-to-bottom. Why do I need to make a "virtual environment" to have separate dependencies, and then source it my shell? Why do I need to manually add version numbers to a file? Why isn't there any builtin way…

I've always seen it like this: Not everyone builds reproducible software with Python (or in general) and how you handle dependencies can vary. Python leaves it open how you do it: globally installed packages, local packages, or a mix of both. In the end, it needs to find the import in the PYTHONPATH, so there's no magic involved, and there are multiple robust options to choose from. So instead of bashing Python for n…

> Python leaves it open how you do it

Are you saying “There’s more than one way to do it”?

Re: Python Is Eating the World

#498

Post by mises »

moksly wrote: post #457
rohan1024 wrote: post #449

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think its hyperbolic. If so many people are complaining then we have a issue. I have tried to learn Python but every time I did, some things kept turning me off. - First indentation was a issue for me but I looked past it and went ahead to give another go at Python. - Even the best in class IDE suffer to give any kind of insight into python code. - Two versions: At my workplace we use Python 2. I prefer to le…

> At my workplace we use Python 2. You’re probably aware of this, but at the odd chance you aren’t, Python 2 end of life is 2020. You really should be moving to Python 3. > Go does this. There is a lot of love for Go and Rust on HN, but unless your region of the world is significantly different than mine, then chances are that there won’t be a Go or Rust job in your lifetime. I’ve only ever seen one of them mentioned…

Place your bets now; I predict the day they turn off pip2 will be the real y2k.

Re: Python Is Eating the World

#499

Post by perakojotgenije »

Ensorceled wrote: post #436

Holy Crap! What a lot of irrational, hyperbolic hate for Python. I think everybody should spend their first couple of years working in Fortran IV on IBM TSO/ISPF. No dependency management because you had to write everything yourself. Or maybe [edit: early 90's] C or C++ development where dependency management meant getting packages off a Usenet archive, uudecoding and compiling them yourself after tweaking the config…

Don't forget COBOL

Re: Python Is Eating the World

#500

Post by chii »

StavrosK wrote: post #439
krzyk wrote: post #437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maven is de facto standard dependency management in Java (most of projects use it). Poetry is not the most used (or known) dependency management in Python.

So? Nothing is stopping you from using it in your projects, thus solving your problem for good.

If a project you want to depend on isn't using a dependency management framework, how would you then make it work in your project? You will have to do extra work to define the transitive dependencies!

What needs to happen is standardization - this has been done in java because of it's maturity. There's almost no java project that isn't using the standard maven dependency management (even projects that don't use maven, such as gradle projects, would use maven dependency management, and export themselves as an artifact usable via maven).

Javascript has an even worse problem, so python isn't alone me thinks...

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