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A Dark Consensus About Screens and Kids Begins to Emerge in Silicon Valley

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491–500 of 516 posts

Re: A Dark Consensus About Screens and Kids Begins to Emerge in Silicon Valley

#491
post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you recommend any literature on the topic of these "tricks"? If you're not in the industry, awareness is probably the best weapon against these practices.

> Can you recommend any literature on the topic of these "tricks"? I am talking about basic stuff like: * Push notifications reminding you that you should play the game. * Let you win some money but then lose it unless you make a payment. * A bar that fills faster at the beginning and then starts to fill slower. So it looks like you are closer to a goal that you actually are. * Show a deck of cards that instead of th…

Even more basic than this -- games as far back as the original Zelda use it (and I'm sure further) -- is intermittent variable reward[0]. This little cognitive meathook has been almost weaponized at this point.

[0]:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reinforcement#Intermittent_rei...

Re: A Dark Consensus About Screens and Kids Begins to Emerge in Silicon Valley

#492
post #227
post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. It's irritating to me to hear screen time constantly discussed as a monolith. For example, I have no issue with my son playing Zelda: Breath of the Wild. He gets to poke around and experiment and explore and it has sparked a lot of imaginative play, curiosity and interesting conversations. Likewise, it's fine if he wants to watch the videos we've taken of our family, it helps him to remember relatives we don't g…

Advertising to kids happens through Youtube and Instagram, not those ugly Adsense iframes that can be spotted a mile away and at this point fall under "banner blindness" for a lot of users. I'm not a gamer so I don't know much about Zelda, but the sort of hypnotic hold some Youtube/Insta personalities have on kids is astonishing. They will parrot their talking points, talk about them relentlessly with friends and buy…

This really isn't new to YouTube, though; kids have been responding this way to ads on regular television, and probably radio before that, for generations. I remember being "brainwashed" myself by the ads that played alongside my cartoons.

Re: A Dark Consensus About Screens and Kids Begins to Emerge in Silicon Valley

#493
post #437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The most basic thing Candy Crush does that slot machines can't is adapt its behavior to the user. Candy Crush can (and does) let you play freely, only to popup the "insert coin to get help" when you are stuck. It also adjusts the game play to your level (by advancing to harder levels) so that you are always challenged and possibly get stuck. If you advance by paying, you probably will need to pay more to get further…

Casinos themselves kind of do this though, right? They give you a card with a balance to pay for games and load winnings, and sometimes they just add extra money to it if you've had a bad day to keep you playing. At least that's what I recall reading somewhere.

Comps are a thing for people gambling at a certain level (thousands of dollars). It’s less about keeping you gambling and more about keeping you gambling _there_.

They’re intended for people that gamble a lot - not so much if you lose, it’s more about the level of money your putting at risk over time. Long run, the casino will make money off you. They want you to stay at their property. It’s also a way to recoup losses if you’ve won a lot.

I had a good run on slots and craps once at the Venetian, and was invited to a slot tournament with a free dinner and 3 free nights stay. I then won the slot tournament. But my broader non-tournament play didn’t keep up with the level they were looking for (they wanted you to take the tournament money and spend it there) so the comps got fewer and weaker. They came back months later when I started playing and winning (show tickets, dinners, etc). A bit of play credit can happen but it’s usually not a lot unless you’re a high roller (tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars).

Before the casino cards it was the pit bosses that would keep an eye on you, so this predates surveillance technology, it’s old school.

Re: A Dark Consensus About Screens and Kids Begins to Emerge in Silicon Valley

#494
post #435

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Whereas on the same exact screen, firefox/chromium are gateways to madness. Oh my god, what hyperbole. This is like the cringey hyperbole equating rock 'n roll with devil music back in the 50s. Things will be fine. Every older generation thinks the newer generation is "mad". It's not the end of the world. Is hacker news mostly grandparents now? Just worried about every new technology? So many comments here feel lik…

The medium is the message. Go read a book or some studies about attention. It's not mindless fear-mongering.

I have read the studies. The science is early and tenuous.

I also remember what it was like to be a metalhead in the 80s.

This is still mostly mindless fear mongering. Sometimes it also is about parents who have had problems parenting kids that slipped into addictive behavior patterns, and blaming the thing rather than just engaging with human nature.

I have two kids, they use screens (with some reasonable limits), and they’re doing fine, but we need to be watchful and actively engaged in their screen use to ensure they know how to to put it down. Some kids needed extreme interventions, I get that. But addictive things aren’t bad things necessarily, they can be very good things in moderation. The world is a big place with more to do than screens. I don’t understand why thy extremes some rich SV families have had to implement is now some kind of “consensus”. The hell there is consensus.

The screen also offers a rich world of its own and ample opportunity for personal advancement. Children need to learn how to manage it for their own ends. Thankfully both of my kiddos seem to be able to put the screen down after a bit and go outside to play.

Re: A Dark Consensus About Screens and Kids Begins to Emerge in Silicon Valley

#495
post #435

Calling it "screen time" is missing the elephant in the room. The largest part of the problem is that the software we're directly interacting with has been designed by companies with interests directly contrary to ours! Social interaction will inherently set off more chemical rewards, but it is the tuning of the feedback loop (optimizing for micro-interactions) that keeps us glued. Emacs/mutt/libreoffice/python/kodi…

> Whereas on the same exact screen, firefox/chromium are gateways to madness. Oh my god, what hyperbole. This is like the cringey hyperbole equating rock 'n roll with devil music back in the 50s. Things will be fine. Every older generation thinks the newer generation is "mad". It's not the end of the world. Is hacker news mostly grandparents now? Just worried about every new technology? So many comments here feel lik…

It is a great case study in groupthink. Fear also is driving a lot of behavior lately generally. Reminds me of the 80s satanic cult scares.

I don’t think all of HN is like this, it’s more about who was attracted to the headline.

Re: A Dark Consensus About Screens and Kids Begins to Emerge in Silicon Valley

#496
I don’t understand why the extremes some families have had to implement to curb poor behavior is now some kind of “consensus”. The hell there is consensus.

The truth is, we are afraid of everything these days.

People don’t send our kids to play outside, someone might hurt or abduct them (or another parent might Parent Patty us)

People don’t spend time with their kids because they’re so busy at work (but they hire nanny’s with zero screen contracts to feel good about this)

To me, kids should learn to use screens early and often, and get good at understanding how they can exploit opportunity and personal advancement with them (and also how to manage time wasters).

Kids lacking social cues - is it really screens? Or are kids becoming nerdier and turning more to screens because of it?

We live in an era where comic book movies rule the box office and being a nerd is celebrated. It’s this strange double standard of how juvenile our adult pop culture has become, and yet we are flummoxed and finger pointing as to why our kids are regressing socially?

Active parenting is needed, and it’s tricky to outsource that or blame the glowing rectangle. This article is about a bunch of rich SV parents that outsource their parenting to nannies and have no good framework on how to teach moderation, so they're banning the devices outright. That seems like a niche situation.

Screens are wonderful, powerful tools - the bicycle for the mind, as Jobs would say. The world is also a bigger place than screens. Active parenting is needed to ensure moderation.

Extreme measures may need to be taken in some cases, but the fear is so overblown it reminds me of the things my parents took away from me for my own good: my Slayer and Judas Priest albums, my D&D sets, and also my computer and/or modem for months at a time. Sometimes for the sake of discipline these actions make sense, but more often they’re a reflection of popular fears.

Re: A Dark Consensus About Screens and Kids Begins to Emerge in Silicon Valley

#497

I don’t understand why the extremes some families have had to implement to curb poor behavior is now some kind of “consensus”. The hell there is consensus. The truth is, we are afraid of everything these days. People don’t send our kids to play outside, someone might hurt or abduct them (or another parent might Parent Patty us) People don’t spend time with their kids because they’re so busy at work (but they hire nan…

serious question: do you have kids?

Re: A Dark Consensus About Screens and Kids Begins to Emerge in Silicon Valley

#498

I don’t understand why the extremes some families have had to implement to curb poor behavior is now some kind of “consensus”. The hell there is consensus. The truth is, we are afraid of everything these days. People don’t send our kids to play outside, someone might hurt or abduct them (or another parent might Parent Patty us) People don’t spend time with their kids because they’re so busy at work (but they hire nan…

serious question: do you have kids?

Yes, two.

Re: A Dark Consensus About Screens and Kids Begins to Emerge in Silicon Valley

#499

I think it's less about the screen time, and more about what's on the screen. Echoing some of the existing comments: Games and sites today are vastly different than they were 20 years ago. Games like Civilization, Quake, Diablo, C&C, Mortal Kombat, Tony Hawk etc... were definitely addictive. But modern games like Fortnite and Clash of Clans are not engineered the same way. They are specifically designed to function l…

> Echoing some of the existing comments: Games and sites today are vastly different than they were 20 years ago. You can still find the oldschool-style. I.e. I just played CHUCHEL adventure game alongside my 4 year old, and it is a simple ~4 hour long adventure game, costs ~10$, no micro-transactions funny business. Reminds me of my time at my grandma's house playing Neverhood :D Open Transport Tycoon Deluxe still wo…

I just built a dedicated PICO-8 console (can also just run on a computer) and I couldn’t be happier with the decision. Given the games you list here, I think you should check it out.

Re: A Dark Consensus About Screens and Kids Begins to Emerge in Silicon Valley

#500

I don’t understand why the extremes some families have had to implement to curb poor behavior is now some kind of “consensus”. The hell there is consensus. The truth is, we are afraid of everything these days. People don’t send our kids to play outside, someone might hurt or abduct them (or another parent might Parent Patty us) People don’t spend time with their kids because they’re so busy at work (but they hire nan…

> I don’t understand why the extremes some families have had to implement to curb poor behavior is now some kind of “consensus”. The hell there is consensus.

It's clickbait. The author wants to jam some facts into a narrative. Consensuses are always "growing". Evidence is always "mounting".

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