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Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

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Re: Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

#491

Post by mamon »

eecc wrote: post #468
jarym wrote: post #418

Stupid Apple - I blame Schiller. They won’t support 32Gb ram because it might decrease battery life and requires them to reengineer the logic board but they’re totally cool with a fragile ass keyboard GLUED to a battery! Really there’s no way to call this anything other than insanity. I remember the media used to talk about the ‘halo effect’ - well I’m someone who has Almost every MBP between 2002-2012 and every iPho…

Technically no, not exactly. It’s intel’s fault. Their damn architectures won’t support DDR4LP - that’s the low power variant - because they’ve become complacent. Also the lack of PCIe lanes forced Apples’s hand on USBc only design, although it’s such a daft choice they should’ve just gone with 2 TB ports and keep the other “legacy” available. But no, they had to brag about dual 4K external monitors to it had to be 4…

There's a simple solution for the lack of DDR4LP: end the "thinner and lighter" insanity and provide normal DDR4 with a decent battery capacity by making the laptop 2mm thicker and 0.5 pound heavier.

Re: Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

#492

Post by kiksy »

kayoone wrote: post #459
kanishkdudeja wrote: post #446

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Dell XPS 13 has been a solid work machine for me. Portable, powerful, comes with USB Type A and C ports, Thunderbolt 3 and comes with one of the best keyboards in laptops.

do you run Windows or Linux on it ?

Big fan of the XPS 13. I bought the developer Linux edition first, which had a 1080p (boo!) screen and matte finish (yeah!). It had an issue where the trackpad would just intermittently stop working or the cursor would just zoom around the screen, making it unusable. Dell sent out an engineer THE NEXT DAY TO MY HOUSE with a replacement trackpad. Insane customer support. I ended up swapping it for a Windows version for the same price but with the higher res screen (but gloss) as the HDMI out didn't work on the Linux version. I think this was software rather than hardware.

Re: Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

#493

Post by simonh »

nvivo wrote: post #457
girvo wrote: post #444

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought the RAM thing would decrease battery life, because it requires a different intel chipset — as shown by the contemporary laptops from other manufacturers with the same CPUs and chipset topping out at 16GB as well? I could be misremembering, and it frustrates me either way, but I was certain that Intel also held some blame for this?

I find it hard to believe that any decent chipset made in the last decade at least cannot support 32gb of ram. I had a reasonably cheap samsung laptop from 2012 that already did. If apple is not doing it, it's not by the lack of choices in the market.

Of course, but it's a tradeoff. These low power low profile Intel CPUs can support more memory, but only DDR4 which is desktop class RAM with more than double the power requirements in use, and four to ten times the power usage in sleep mode.

The logic board would also have the redesigned and bigger for the new chipset, putting pressure on battery space. You see Microsoft making the same choice as Apple with the new Surface laptop.

Fortunately Intel are launching new mobile chips with support for fast, low power LPDDR3E memory over 16GB this year.

https://macdaddy.io/macbook-pro-limited-16gb-ram/

Re: Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

#494

Post by bhnmmhmd »

jarym wrote: post #418

Stupid Apple - I blame Schiller. They won’t support 32Gb ram because it might decrease battery life and requires them to reengineer the logic board but they’re totally cool with a fragile ass keyboard GLUED to a battery! Really there’s no way to call this anything other than insanity. I remember the media used to talk about the ‘halo effect’ - well I’m someone who has Almost every MBP between 2002-2012 and every iPho…

I mostly agree with you. But really, who needs +16GB RAM on their laptop?! I think the need for more RAM is correlated with the need for more CPU clock, more powerful graphic card, and a better Motherboard, all of which result in a huge decrease in battery life (which is supposed to be a laptop's main strength over heavy, power-consuming PC).

Re: Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

#495

Post by pmontra »

frant-hartm wrote: post #308
pmontra wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the number pad that's in the wrong place. It should not be on the laptop. I've got a HP with a number pad because no 15" model doesn't have one. I never use it (the number pad) but I have to shift the whole machine to the right to have the touchpad and the "real" keyboard in front of me. So most of the vern is on the right of my eyes. Great design!

Different users different requirements. I bought Lenovo Thinkpad P50 instead of Dell XPS because the Thinkpad has a full keyboard.

Agreed about the requirements, but do you also shift the laptop right or bend your arms and shoulders?

I'd sell the numberpad as an external device. People that need it will buy it and place it to the right of the laptop (or maybe to the left for left handers, who knows?)

There is another design problem: it could shield the ports on the side where it is placed.

Another solution: engineer the screen so that it can be shifted 1/3 to the left when the laptop is open. That will align it with the spacebar and the touchpad.

About the XPS, I didn't buy it back in 2014 because the then current model had some thermal problem and because I like 3 physical buttons on the touchpad. HP ZBooks do have them.

Re: Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

#496

Post by dsuth »

fauigerzigerk wrote: post #357
Symbiote wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Running Linux, of course. I wish more people would. That's the best way to get any issues fixed, whether by filing bug reports, writing up a workaround on a wiki or Stackoverflow to help others, or fixing the bug. It's important for us to own our own tools, and keep the right to do with them as we wish. We expect this for our servers, but ignore it for laptops and desktops. If developers continue like this, then us…

And why do you think that a lot of people who are painfully aware of all the issues you mention still refuse to use Linux on a laptop while happily using it on servers? There is a riduculous repetitiveness about this debate. For me and many others, Linux on a laptop has always been unstable, insecure, hot and noisy. Many specific issues can be fixed if you put in the effort, but on almost every dist-upgrade something…

This. I gave up after several rounds of dist-upgrades broke, then fixed, then re-broke things. If you’re making fundamental architectural changes on a regular (monthly) basis, it’s pretty clear you’re not interested in being taken seriously in the business user world.

Re: Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

#497

Post by lathiat »

microtonal wrote: post #426
paulriddle wrote: post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am currently using this horrible keyboard. Hate this thing. Before I've been using a mechanical keyboard, but coworkers complained that it was too loud. I like loud keybords. The sound is so pleasant and satisfying I want it to be even more intense. I want to feel vibration every time I hit the key. And when I hit enter I want there to be a minor earthquake. This apple trash keyboard doesn't have Shift+Insert. The…

The Microsoft Sculpt Ergonomic Keyboard does not have loud switches, but feels much better than the Magic Keyboard. Only the function keys are not great.

+1 for the sculpt ergonomic, the older black version (with external numpad) and newer surface version are both great.

The newer surface version is mostly better because it has an Fn key instead of a physical switch to go between media keys and F1, F2, etc.. plus real home/insert/end/arrow keys. I do wish they left the numberpad separate though, as it increase the distance to my mouse/trackpad and I preferred to just get rid of it, as personally I never use it. But many people also like to have it...

Newer version is also bluetooth which is great on mac, but less great on windows/linux as you don't get bootloader support.

Re: Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

#498

Post by rbanffy »

m_st wrote: post #464
jarym wrote: post #418

Stupid Apple - I blame Schiller. They won’t support 32Gb ram because it might decrease battery life and requires them to reengineer the logic board but they’re totally cool with a fragile ass keyboard GLUED to a battery! Really there’s no way to call this anything other than insanity. I remember the media used to talk about the ‘halo effect’ - well I’m someone who has Almost every MBP between 2002-2012 and every iPho…

Apple (MBP15 late 2013, iMac 27 late 2009) user at home, Dell XPS 15 9550 (2015) user at work here. While I totally agree with you about the new MBP, please just know that the XPS 15 isn't without it's problems too! It must just be that Windows users are more used to lower quality hardware/software that such things are accepted... I really like my XPS 15 as it is fast and as compact as a MBP, but: - Microsoft Surface…

> - The web cam is at the worst possible position. It films your fingers and breast, rather than head!

As someone who's going bald, this is a feature rather than a bug.

Of course, I'd like 4 cameras on the corners and software that allows me to shift a virtual camera to the center of whatever video conference tool I'm using.

BTW, that would be a brilliant new feature for Apple laptops of the future. That and chroma/motion key built in the camera video processing pipelines or, perhaps, the full set of iPhone image processing options.

Re: Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

#499

Post by foldr »

reitanqild wrote: post #447
stef25 wrote: post #422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FWIW, my Macbook (not my primary machine) cost me 400€ second hand and I spent another 100€ upgrading to 8GB Ram and an SSD drive. It's a ten year old machine which runs like a dream. I challenge anyone to find a better computing solution for 500€. You could install Linux on a 500€ laptop but you wouldn't have the keyboard or screen quality of the Macbook, nor would have access to the Apple ecosystem. A lot of progra…

> You could install Linux on a 500€ laptop but you wouldn't have the keyboard or screen quality of the Macbook, nor would have access to the Apple ecosystem. I used a 2009 MacBook pro for close to 3 years. The following are my opinions, they are not valid for everyone but for some of us they are very valid: Keyboard had ctrl in a different spot than every other keyboard I ever spent significant time with. (Disclaimer…

>Basic things like selecting a word using the keyboard would take one of three key combos depending on which app. I think sometimes it was ctrl-shift-arrow, sometimes alt-shift-arrow and sometimes fn-shift-arrow.

Whereas all Linux GUI applications follow a completely consistent set of keyboard bindings...

Re: Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

#500

Post by chris_wot »

duiker101 wrote: post #340
ruytlm wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Worth noting that in some jurisdictions (e.g. Australia), consumer protection law extends beyond manufacturer warranties by establishing consumer guarantees, e.g. a guarantee that products will be of acceptable quality, and that they will be reasonably fit for any disclosed or represented purpose.[0] This often extends beyond the period of the express manufacturer warranty. On a semi-related note, Apple has recently…

Doesn't Apple often snob this laws? Have they changed their behaviour? If I remember correctly, in EU, up to just one or two years ago they were refusing to service products under warranty older than one year if you didn't have Apple Care even though the law mandates a 2 year warranty period.

They do. And they got fined AU$9M a week ago.

https://www.smh.com.au/technology/apple-us-fined-9-million-f...

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