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Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

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Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#491

Post by valuearb »

supernovae wrote: post #454
valuearb wrote: post #435

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't pay money for software to have to remove ads. When I write that check, the software should work for me, not advertisers.

This is an assumption based on ignorance. The "ads" are recommended software. It is annoying that you get a toast notification asking if you want to use office online just as its annoying every few weeks my iPhone asks if I want to buy more icloud. But what is really happening is that anything with an app store is tracking you to build a marketing engine that recommends other apps to you. The fallacy is that Microsof…

If you try to say what MSFT is doing is the same as Apple and Google then you are being hugely disengenous.

Ads for apps are ads, no matter how you spin it. People don't pay for android, they pay for windows. A pay OS/platform shouldn't force you to disable ads. Gmsil/Chrome are free apps.

Apple doesn't track you. On installs it asks if it can collect usage info, but you have to agree, and it's one time. They don't show you ads in either OS. They don't track your personal info. They don't give government agencies backdoors like MSFT got caught doing. They go to court to fight illegal searches of your devices.

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#492

Post by emodendroket »

digi_owl wrote: post #330
Freak_NL wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Of course Microsoft blasts Win10 installer files down our very expensive, very slow satellite link […] The lesson there is that you should always quarantine computers that need to be pinned on very specific versions of an OS, especially in such a precarious setting! Those computers should not have been able to communicate over the internet at all, except for those cases where communication is part of their purpose…

Could be it had been sitting down there for years without any incident. Best i recall, MS was very very insistent with their Win10 "upgrade". To the point that they relabeled the installer patch as critical (aka, reserved for pushing 0-day patches or similar) after people found they could change certain settings to make it go away.

> Could be it had been sitting down there for years without any incident.

Well, sure, and if they ran a critical machine with no backups whatsoever it might have also been fine for years, but that hardly makes it reasonable practice.

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#493

Post by valuearb »

supernovae wrote: post #445
valuearb wrote: post #438

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LOL at comparing MSFT to Apple or Google in this regard. Googles whole business model is ad supported, in return you get good free software. Apple actually fights to protect your privacy, when you pay them money for hardware they just try to make it work well for you, not advertiser. And their updates/reboots are optional. MSFT takes your money, then doesnt protect your privacy AND sells you out to advertisers.

I don't buy this argument. Its fully of fallacies and misconceptions. Microsoft offers a very similar ecosystem.. You can use office online, One drive, bing.com, skype, Cortana, Outlook.com and many services free for use with advertising (or no advertising) MS doesn't "take your money" either, you buy something with Windows 10 on it or you buy a mac with OSX.. iOS updates aren't usually optional, as they quickly spam…

Correct, both MSFT and Apple force you to pay for your OS as part of your purchase, but Apple doesn't force you to disable ads.

That was the only part that was correct. Apple reminds users of critical updates, doesn't force. Apple allows every publisher to upgrade their apps (I'm an IOS dev), just don't try to link with outdated APIs. I have iOS 6 apps that still run fine without changes.

And you don't know what MSFT sells to advertisers.

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#494

Post by ThrowawayR2 »

cartoonfoxes wrote: post #120
setq wrote: post #11

I don't know why people complain about updates and restarting, particularly in this thread. You fill your car up with fuel regularly because it has been warning you it's nearly empty for a while much like updates remind you regularly. People seem to complain and say "it updated right when I was in the middle of X" but they've been putting it off for ages. Do you break down in the middle of the motorway when you run o…

Forced restarts have been wreaking havoc among my users that have switched to Windows 10. Plenty of notice, you say? Hardly. Our software and engineering staff are no longer confidently able to perform long-running operations overnight or across weekends. Simulations, and data-capture runs in particular are now routinely being done during normal business hours since users cannot trust that their OS won't kill everyth…

> Our software and engineering staff are no longer confidently able to perform long-running operations overnight or across weekends.

So, you're admitting in public that your organization is using the consumer editions of Windows for business use instead of the enterprise edition, which allows administrators to control updates and reboots? Sounds more like your IT department basically doesn't know what it's doing; the additional cost of the enterprise edition is negligible compared to the cost of your engineering software and other tools.

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#495

Post by supernovae »

valuearb wrote: post #491
supernovae wrote: post #454

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an assumption based on ignorance. The "ads" are recommended software. It is annoying that you get a toast notification asking if you want to use office online just as its annoying every few weeks my iPhone asks if I want to buy more icloud. But what is really happening is that anything with an app store is tracking you to build a marketing engine that recommends other apps to you. The fallacy is that Microsof…

If you try to say what MSFT is doing is the same as Apple and Google then you are being hugely disengenous. Ads for apps are ads, no matter how you spin it. People don't pay for android, they pay for windows. A pay OS/platform shouldn't force you to disable ads. Gmsil/Chrome are free apps. Apple doesn't track you. On installs it asks if it can collect usage info, but you have to agree, and it's one time. They don't s…

You obviously aren't paying any attention to Microsoft lately and it shows. I'm not going to change that so the least you can do is show a little empathy for those who do.

Its painfully apparent you really hate Microsoft for your own deply personal reasons. I'm not changing that. But I will stand up and say that what you have said is not true and not the case of Microsoft today.

I'm not saying you have to change but we must be clear that you are speaking from perceived history rather than current day times.

Google android is "Free" as Windows 10 is free.. you paid for it with hardware... now if you could build your own handset you could install android but it would NOT be the official "google" android because reality is - hardware companies still have to license it in such a way to get the official apps. But again, we're not going to talk about this in apples and apples, you're only framing it in your obsession of fear/doubt/hate against Microsoft. And again, that's ok, I really don't give a hoot.

Apple does track you. The Apple Privacy statement is almost exactly the same as GOogle and Microsofts. https://www.apple.com/privacy/manage-your-privacy/ - they all enable services and warn you about services that provide value add in some cases but can seem in violation in others.

Its up to YOU to understand what you want to share, enable/disable what you want to share and understand how changing that changes the system you're running in.

But its up to you to use what YOU want to use and respect others for what they want to use.

Spending so much energy spreading FUD does nothing.

Chromebooks aren't free, phones aren't free, tablets aren't free, Apple/Google/Microsoft all provide app metrics to all their respective app stores and all go above and beyond to try and make them secure (google actually having to struggle with this compared to the other giants)

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#496

Post by supernovae »

valuearb wrote: post #493
supernovae wrote: post #445

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't buy this argument. Its fully of fallacies and misconceptions. Microsoft offers a very similar ecosystem.. You can use office online, One drive, bing.com, skype, Cortana, Outlook.com and many services free for use with advertising (or no advertising) MS doesn't "take your money" either, you buy something with Windows 10 on it or you buy a mac with OSX.. iOS updates aren't usually optional, as they quickly spam…

Correct, both MSFT and Apple force you to pay for your OS as part of your purchase, but Apple doesn't force you to disable ads. That was the only part that was correct. Apple reminds users of critical updates, doesn't force. Apple allows every publisher to upgrade their apps (I'm an IOS dev), just don't try to link with outdated APIs. I have iOS 6 apps that still run fine without changes. And you don't know what MSFT…

Apple does have "Ads". They're always asking you to upgrade to icloud on every device - my MacBook and my IPhone.That's about as annoying as "buy office 365 now"

MSFT does spell out what they share with advertisers the very same way Apple and Google do.

https://www.google.com/policies/privacy/

https://www.apple.com/privacy/manage-your-privacy/

https://privacy.microsoft.com/en-us/privacystatement/

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#497

Post by supernovae »

jessaustin wrote: post #478
supernovae wrote: post #422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

as the IoT and "constellation" "explodes" we can only HOPE that includes auto-update.

Sure, but part of the process of "ironing out" local networks will be an easy way of categorizing what host gets what sort of connection to the internet. A pedometer built into a shoe needs very little access to anything.

but it will need an update if it has a CVE and it shouldn't need humans to update it

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#498

Post by supernovae »

linza wrote: post #479
supernovae wrote: post #445

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't buy this argument. Its fully of fallacies and misconceptions. Microsoft offers a very similar ecosystem.. You can use office online, One drive, bing.com, skype, Cortana, Outlook.com and many services free for use with advertising (or no advertising) MS doesn't "take your money" either, you buy something with Windows 10 on it or you buy a mac with OSX.. iOS updates aren't usually optional, as they quickly spam…

I assume "office online" means Office 365? If yes, how can I use it for free? Last time I checked there was only a free trial [1]. Microsoft does take my money--just because the cost for the OS is hidden in the hardware doesn't mean some fraction of that money isn't going to Microsoft, i.e. in the end I have to pay to use Windows. Windows 10 was not free either as advertised, since it required an older version to upg…

Every company is out there to make money. This is non sequitur.

As far as product comparison, I prefer Office over google docs (And the link you posted is about their commercial offering).

office.com offers the online versions of office (web like google docs) and its as feature rich.

Also, lets be real.. You can get office 365 for up to 5 pcs for 99 a year and each account you link to it gets the extra benefits such as terabyte of onedrive and such, its not a bad deal at all.

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#499

Post by idlewan »

nradov wrote: post #447
novaleaf wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think this is the reason why most people (non tech savvy) look to turning off Windows Update. Most people don't know/care about Windows Update pushing features. However most people DO care when their computers spontaneously reboot themselves with no warning (sometimes even in the middle of "active hours"!) which is what msft has set by default (and indeed has/had no UI to modify in some versions of Win10)

I agree, the spontaneous reboots make my wife furious. But I think the only real solution is for MS to enhance Windows to allow updates without rebooting. This is obviously a huge engineering challenge but it should be achievable, at least for the vast majority of updates.

That's not a huge engineering challenge. Every single linux distro has been doing it since forever.
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