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They Used To Last 50 Years

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Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#491

Post by lawless123 »

robin_reala wrote: post #485
redsummer wrote: post #480

A good rule is just to buy Miele or high-end Bosch. Make sure it's made in Germany and sold in the German market. They have higher standards. I don't know if this is true for ovens, but with other appliances it's a good rule to follow. I can see an opening for Trump here. If he wants the US to be known for high quality, long-lasting products, he could differentiate US products from cheap and crappy Far East stuff. Th…

How could Trump do anything about that?

He's going to Make Appliances Great Again!

Don't ask for a plan though..

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#492

Post by emodendroket »

no_wizard wrote: post #258
sokoloff wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many cars are largely DIY-friendly already. I do all of the work on our cars except tires, exhaust, bodywork/paint, and manufacturer recalls. In the last 15 years, I can only recall one time a car went into a shop for a reason other than the above and that was an independent shop where I was too busy to deal with the job. That's across a Mercedes, a Jeep, a Honda CR-V, and Alfa Romeo, and some classic Mustangs. There…

Perhaps. However I don't think they were built in mind for maximum owner repairability. I suspect they wouldn't be fighting the right to repair so hard otherwise

Most people never open up their cars though.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#493

Post by redsummer »

kerouanton wrote: post #489
redsummer wrote: post #480

A good rule is just to buy Miele or high-end Bosch. Make sure it's made in Germany and sold in the German market. They have higher standards. I don't know if this is true for ovens, but with other appliances it's a good rule to follow. I can see an opening for Trump here. If he wants the US to be known for high quality, long-lasting products, he could differentiate US products from cheap and crappy Far East stuff. Th…

I see two objections here. First, it's often more expensive than people can afford. Most relatives I know are "stuck" buying low-grade appliances/furniture just because they can't afford more, and they know they will have to replace it in 4-5 years. Second: fashion/mode/trend. I was surprised to see many people throwing functional appliances, computers and even furniture just because it was outdated, not trending. su…

A legally enforced 10 year rule would be great. Works for 10 years or your money back!

I've got a mid-2007 iMac I'm still using. Great build quality. Unfortunately the latest macs seem gimmicky - thin iMacs and touchbar MacBooks etc.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#494

Post by emodendroket »

sokoloff wrote: post #163
emodendroket wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know about that particular example, but refrigerators with ice makers are an obvious case of people buying appliances way more likely to break down.

Yes, but I replaced my ice maker for $36 and about 30 minutes of my time (10 minutes to figure out what to order; 20 minutes to put it in). https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002GZND6U

You can save a lot of money on almost anything if you're willing to get your hands dirty and do the work yourself. I don't think it invalidates the argument.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#495

Post by 317070 »

amelius wrote: post #479
FrankyHollywood wrote: post #478

A while ago I read the biography of Anton Philips. He described a board meeting where they decided to make the lifetime of a light bulb 1000 hours instead of 5000. So they actually decided to make their product less good, only to get more (short term?) profit. (some) people are never satisfied, always want more more more...

Wouldn't the free market solve this automatically?

Basically, that question is irrelevant.

If we observe that the current market is not solving this automatically, the question whether a more abstract version of the current market will solve it is kind of moot. Either that, or we currently do not have a free market in the household appliance sector.

The reason it is not being solved by the free market, is that a free market is never the best option for all actors inside this market. There is always a group of actors who gains by having the market less free. So they will actively try to make the market less free by using their freedom in this free market.

In this case, household appliance manufacturers formed an alliance in that they all dropped on quality, and used obfuscation methods to make sure they cannot be punished by the consumer (who does not know who actually manufacturers which product), combined with a reduction in the number of manufacturers through series of acquisitions. Such oligopoly formation can be done without problem through mediation by independent consultancy companies, who go give the same presentations to all manufacturers.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#496

Post by redsummer »

robin_reala wrote: post #485
redsummer wrote: post #480

A good rule is just to buy Miele or high-end Bosch. Make sure it's made in Germany and sold in the German market. They have higher standards. I don't know if this is true for ovens, but with other appliances it's a good rule to follow. I can see an opening for Trump here. If he wants the US to be known for high quality, long-lasting products, he could differentiate US products from cheap and crappy Far East stuff. Th…

How could Trump do anything about that?

I doubt if he is, but it would be great if he did. What with his focus on manufacturing.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#497

Post by alkonaut »

amelius wrote: post #484
alkonaut wrote: post #476

Here is a guess: the fridge that lasted 50 years cost a months salary, while the fridge that lasts 10 years costs 1/5 a months salary. So you get exactly what you pay for, and you pay exactly as much for "having a fridge" today as you did when they lasted 50 years. But here is the kicker: a) People don't want to pay big money for something they don't know will last 50 years,. b) People want new things. While it's con…

Perhaps it would be better if people buy refrigeration as a service. Then the service provider can worry about such things as lifetime, maintenance, replacement, and selling old refrigerators. And there would be no incentive for "planned obsolescence".

I think this will very much be the case of a lot of things. People will "own" less things and instead lease. It's a trend in cars, and I think more and more things will go this way. I don't want to make big investments and I don't want to maintain things (which means they own me more than I own them). Repainting the house or worrying about the lifetime of my boiler is exactly the kind of stuff I'd happily pay a big premium to let someone else do - and most importantly - worry about.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#498

Post by mannigfaltig »

redsummer wrote: post #480

A good rule is just to buy Miele or high-end Bosch. Make sure it's made in Germany and sold in the German market. They have higher standards. I don't know if this is true for ovens, but with other appliances it's a good rule to follow. I can see an opening for Trump here. If he wants the US to be known for high quality, long-lasting products, he could differentiate US products from cheap and crappy Far East stuff. Th…

[deleted]

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#499

Post by bartread »

redsummer wrote: post #480

A good rule is just to buy Miele or high-end Bosch. Make sure it's made in Germany and sold in the German market. They have higher standards. I don't know if this is true for ovens, but with other appliances it's a good rule to follow. I can see an opening for Trump here. If he wants the US to be known for high quality, long-lasting products, he could differentiate US products from cheap and crappy Far East stuff. Th…

+1 to this.

I bought a Miele vacuum cleaner in 2012 to replace a bagless Electrolux unit I'd had since I moved into my house. Yes, it was four times the price but it's more than four times the vacuum cleaner. E.g., the Electrolux couldn't handle sucking up plaster dust (I kid you not), and was an absolute nightmare to empty - you had to do it outside or you'd get dust everywhere. The Miele will suck up anything dry, is much quieter, much stronger, doesn't get tetchy about fine particles such as plaster dust, and doesn't make a mess when you change the bag inside (after experience with various bagless vacuums over the years I've come to the conclusion that they all, erm, suck... and not in the good way).

My dishwasher and washing machine are Bosch and AEG respectively. I've had them both since 2010 and the only problem has been the filter pump crapping out on the washing machine in 2013 (which was annoying because it happened just after the warranty expired). Other than that neither of them shows any sign of giving out any time soon - the washing machine is direct drive and is still just as quiet as the day I installed it. No rust anywhere either.

Again, they weren't cheap, and whilst a big part of me rails at spending relatively serious money on something as boring as household appliances it's absolutely been worth it, and has probably saved me cash over the longer term.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#500

Post by reitanqild »

cyxxon wrote: post #421
reitanqild wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Miele Seconded: the Miele that my family insisted on buying us for the wedding is well beyond 8 years and we haven't had a single problem. 10 years warranty but rumour have it they might easily last up 20 years although you might have to change parts somewhere between 10 and 20 years. Oh, and I think it cost something less than USD1000.

Disclaimer: I work for Miele, but in the IT department. It is not really a rumor per se, I'd say - the internal idea at Miele is that the stuff should last 15 to 20 years with normal use. So of course it can break after 8 years, everything can, but it shouldn't - that's why Miele sells service certificates (extended manufacturer warranty) for 10 years etc.

that's why Miele sells service certificates (extended manufacturer warranty) for 10 years etc.

Win-win it seems? Miele has a reason to optimize for long life, customer has a basic expectation of a long device life time and a possibility to buy peace of mind?

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