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UK votes to leave EU

bbc.co.uk

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Re: UK votes to leave EU

#491

Post by vsl »

jeffwass wrote: post #161
dangjc wrote: post #95

It's amazing that such deep constitutional change will be achieved with such a slim majority. 48% of British people will be ejected out of the EU essentially against their will. The UK has always embraced first past the post voting, but it really shows here how it creates very discontinuous inflection points.

I've heard yesterday that the referendum itself is non-binding, and that Parliament is still in charge of the final decision. Further Parliamentary lawmakers are supposedly mostly pro-Remain, so given the slim margin of victory it's not clear what will ultimately happen.

Ah yes, the classic EU way of disrespecting the will of the people so popular since the Lisabon Treaty.

Another way out of this mess is to perform European Voting: rinse and repeat until Brits get the message and vote as they are supposed to. Worked with the Irish...

Re: UK votes to leave EU

#492

Post by jacquesm »

JohnTHaller wrote: post #216
arethuza wrote: post #199

I wonder if the EU will now say that Scotland can get membership if we vote for independence? Obviously they couldn't do that while the UK was in the EU, but now that the UK wants to leave and Scotland doesn't that view might well change. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-3659... NB On a personal note I am way more upset by this result than any other election or referendum I have voted in - even…

I'd wager Scotland will want to leave the UK and join the EU. But I'd also wager that the backdoor deals made during the exit negotiations will prevent that from happening.

> But I'd also wager that the backdoor deals made during the exit negotiations will prevent that from happening.

Who would make those deals and what is there to gain from that by those parties?

Re: UK votes to leave EU

#493

Post by antirez »

redthrowaway wrote: post #487
_ph_ wrote: post #468

A very sad day for everyone in Europe. The EU is not only about trade regulations, but about a continent who had a not very peaceful history finally growing together. The freedom of movement for European citizens was not only "convenient" but in fact an important civil right. When you live or have a business in one state of the US, you are bound to local regulations of course, but being part of the US granted you a l…

The US did not magic itself into existence as a united state. It began in common purpose with a shared, very strong, external enemy. It then assigned itself a shared dream of settling the content. And, crucially, it already had a shared cultural identity, shared language, and shared religion when it began. The EU does not have a common enemy to force it together. It does not have a shared language, or culture, or ide…

I don't agree with that, the EU has a very strong cultural union that was created by the enunciation of the French Revolution principles. It's not by accident that, for example, there is no state in EU with death penalty. This makes states within the EU very similar at certain levels, otherwise a claim could be made that the cultural delta is the same between two different EU states and between an EU state and US, but this is not true, if you check a bit the fundamental values you'll see that EU nations have a lot in common.

Re: UK votes to leave EU

#494

Post by tajen »

I had no opinion about UK leaving Europe (because we don't know what their new situation will be), but I just wish a referendum existed every few years for all international treaties signed by our leaders, when they act as law. I'm looking at you, TPP and TTIP.

Re: UK votes to leave EU

#495

Post by ck2 »

My question as an ignorant American is does this mean other countries might also leave and how many can leave before it collapses?

Re: UK votes to leave EU

#496

Post by joeyspn »

bkor wrote: post #475
_ph_ wrote: post #468

A very sad day for everyone in Europe. The EU is not only about trade regulations, but about a continent who had a not very peaceful history finally growing together. The freedom of movement for European citizens was not only "convenient" but in fact an important civil right. When you live or have a business in one state of the US, you are bound to local regulations of course, but being part of the US granted you a l…

> The freedom of movement for European citizens UK was not part of Schengen. As such, it was always more difficult to go to/from the UK. Foreigners having a Schengen visa (work permit) still need an expensive Visa to go to UK. Then there's the pound instead of having the Euro. What was more easy is _permanently_ moving from UK to e.g. Spain (which happens a lot). Finding work in another EU country and being able to l…

> it was always more difficult to go to/from the UK

This is not true. You obviously haven't travelled many times from UK to other european countries (or viceversa)...

Re: UK votes to leave EU

#497

Post by tonyedgecombe »

kaftoy wrote: post #391
beninvalencia wrote: post #122

As other comments have noted, the point is that the EU will not want to give the UK a good deal on leaving, because the EU does not want to give any encouragement to the other countries which want to leave the EU (some of which want to leave more strongly than the UK do - apparently). Secondly, why would the UK end up with a Norway or Switzerland deal, when the UK is the 5th largest economy in the world? This is unpr…

"Do you know how many German cars are sold in the UK each year?" So what you are saying is that brits will stop buying German/EU cars? Where are they going to buy their cars from? It's not like UK has some meaningfull car making industry, they moved all factories away. Not everyone can buy an Aston Martin. I think that as long as the price for an EU car will be just below the price for importing an equivalent car fro…

The UK makes about 1.6 million cars a year and exports about 1.2 million of them.

Re: UK votes to leave EU

#498

Post by tsaprailis »

bkor wrote: post #475
_ph_ wrote: post #468

A very sad day for everyone in Europe. The EU is not only about trade regulations, but about a continent who had a not very peaceful history finally growing together. The freedom of movement for European citizens was not only "convenient" but in fact an important civil right. When you live or have a business in one state of the US, you are bound to local regulations of course, but being part of the US granted you a l…

> The freedom of movement for European citizens UK was not part of Schengen. As such, it was always more difficult to go to/from the UK. Foreigners having a Schengen visa (work permit) still need an expensive Visa to go to UK. Then there's the pound instead of having the Euro. What was more easy is _permanently_ moving from UK to e.g. Spain (which happens a lot). Finding work in another EU country and being able to l…

No, EU citizens can work without a VISA in the UK.

Re: UK votes to leave EU

#499

Post by acd »

It is sad that Britain leaves the EU. Britain is one of EUs founding countries. One can wonder how this on the long term affects peace in Europe if there are external challenges like a country being invaded.

A good thing I can see is that British offshore banking will not be allowed to siphon off European tax payers money. In my country there is things like pharmacies where medicines are payed by the wellfare state that is owned in British tax havens. Right now that is the only positive effect I can see that may end.

In light Norway and Switzerland are also doing ok as countries.

Re: UK votes to leave EU

#500

Post by pavlov »

redthrowaway wrote: post #487
_ph_ wrote: post #468

A very sad day for everyone in Europe. The EU is not only about trade regulations, but about a continent who had a not very peaceful history finally growing together. The freedom of movement for European citizens was not only "convenient" but in fact an important civil right. When you live or have a business in one state of the US, you are bound to local regulations of course, but being part of the US granted you a l…

The US did not magic itself into existence as a united state. It began in common purpose with a shared, very strong, external enemy. It then assigned itself a shared dream of settling the content. And, crucially, it already had a shared cultural identity, shared language, and shared religion when it began. The EU does not have a common enemy to force it together. It does not have a shared language, or culture, or ide…

The U.S. Congress is also pretty damned incompetent at its duties. In many ways the EU institutions are functioning better than their American counterparts. Sometimes it's better to have 20 different opinions to reconcile, rather than two polarised factions that can't concede on anything.
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