State of emergency declared across France after Paris shootings and explosions • Hacker News Board

Re: State of emergency declared across France after Paris shootings and explosions

#491

Post by tosseraccount » Sat, Nov 14, 2015, 4:56 PM UTC

oblio wrote: post #281

tosseraccount wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A different take ... from 1899 ... "Individual Muslims may show splendid qualities, but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christ…

I don't think Churchill is the best benchmark for such matters: "starvation of anyhow underfed Bengalis is less serious than that of sturdy Greeks" https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bengal_famine_of_1943#Suppli... And definitely not a benchmark for the 21st century.

Churchill was fighting the Nazis at the time and prioritized shipping to best defeat the enemy.

Re: State of emergency declared across France after Paris shootings and explosions

#492

Post by powertower » Sat, Nov 14, 2015, 10:16 PM UTC

jacquesm wrote: post #467

powertower wrote: post #462

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Because 'Muslims' are many, and terrorists are few. There is much more to the story than fitting Muslims into the categories of: "non-terrorist" and "active-terrorist". The fact still remains that Muslim [and other immigrating] populations in Europe negatively impact every single metric of social-ills (rapes, murders, acid-burning attacks, honor-killings / enormous housing and welfare costs / emergence of no-go zon…

So, let's first establish that these are individuals and that while for some of the individuals targeted your claims hold true there are many others that did successfully integrate. For the rest I'll ignore those but they exist and their numbers are vast, much larger than the numbers of those that failed to integrate but since they're not 'part of the problem' I'll pretend we're not talking about them (though they sh…

> It's each and every person as an individual that matters.

The human race has been based on groups/collectives since its inception. Even before we were Homo-sapiens, we were forming natural groups that defined us - with each group producing, collecting, and evolving individuals of similar attributes and behaviors.

Once you mismatch a group into another, some type of violence always arises.

And we are mismatching on a lot here -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0sRmpvdIIk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2nlIfn8tNA

In addition to the above, the recent floods of immigration into Europe is also not working because the groups that are coming in are largely doing so for the immediate benefits (ex: mindset that thinks welfare is "salary") and not because they recognize and respect European values.

The further this goes on, the worse it gets, and its becoming a disaster.

Re: State of emergency declared across France after Paris shootings and explosions

#493

Post by oblio » Sat, Nov 14, 2015, 10:25 PM UTC

tosseraccount wrote: post #491

oblio wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think Churchill is the best benchmark for such matters: "starvation of anyhow underfed Bengalis is less serious than that of sturdy Greeks" https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bengal_famine_of_1943#Suppli... And definitely not a benchmark for the 21st century.

Churchill was fighting the Nazis at the time and prioritized shipping to best defeat the enemy.

At the expense of millions of what he should have considered his own people. I'm stretching the analogy a little here, but I'm sure you can think of another Allied leader that did the same.

And the other allied leader has (deservedly) an awful reputation. Definitely a reputation which is worse than Churchill's.

Re: State of emergency declared across France after Paris shootings and explosions

#494

Post by lazaroclapp » Sat, Nov 14, 2015, 11:17 PM UTC

moultano wrote: post #350

lazaroclapp wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, when I first heard the news, my though was that when in France 40 people get gunned down it is a national emergency, whereas in Mexico (where I am from) it is an statistically peaceful day. That's what no reaction or military-first reaction gets you (well, combined with a lot more issues, but having this be "normal" is part of the problem back there). I do think you want to treat it as "murder is a serious crime…

Certainly, I wouldn't want it ignored by law enforcement and first responders. Beyond that though, the public's reaction is the objective of the terrorists. Reacting to these events is literally "letting the terrorists win."

I guess I just wish there was a possibility for a better reaction than what we will probably see (this has already been called "an act of war" by Hollande...). I am not a fan of treating terrorism in a "don't feed the troll" sort of way. I do wish our collective reaction were more reasonable, more measured and more humanitarian, though, despite the natural sentiments this sort of thing produces and seeks to produce.

I don't think ignoring the problem is the only way to not let the terrorists win. But I do agree responding militarily or by widespread panic is what they most likely want.

Re: State of emergency declared across France after Paris shootings and explosions

#495

Post by mc32 » Sun, Nov 15, 2015, 12:41 AM UTC

jacquesm wrote: post #400

mc32 wrote: post #387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some of it is attributable to people with nothing to lose; however a good many have lots to lose, personally as well as socially at large. It's more about ideology than actually personal grievances.

From what I've read on the subject the key unifying element seems to be that those who do these deeds want to 'matter' somehow, even if that can only be in a negative way. How that ties into psychology I have no idea but if you have something to lose that balance shifts measurably, but even then there are still people that can be successfully radicalized. It's a tough problem, that's for sure.

Here is a decent listen. http://www.npr.org/2013/10/25/195238189/how-does-an-islamist...

An ex-recruiter who spent years in an Egyptian prison became disillusioned with the ideology.

Re: State of emergency declared across France after Paris shootings and explosions

#496

Post by tosseraccount » Sun, Nov 15, 2015, 1:43 PM UTC

oblio wrote: post #493

tosseraccount wrote: post #491

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Churchill was fighting the Nazis at the time and prioritized shipping to best defeat the enemy.

At the expense of millions of what he should have considered his own people. I'm stretching the analogy a little here, but I'm sure you can think of another Allied leader that did the same. And the other allied leader has (deservedly) an awful reputation. Definitely a reputation which is worse than Churchill's.

Mao? Chang Kai Chek? De Gaulle?

Re: State of emergency declared across France after Paris shootings and explosions

#497

Post by wslh » Tue, Nov 17, 2015, 1:14 PM UTC

jacquesm wrote: post #439

wslh wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are talking as if terrorism was a natural disaster, something you can compare statistically and impossible to confront. Terrorism makes you feel fear, even if it's irrational it impacts you and the society you live.

Terrorism does not make me feel fear. It makes me sad. Sad that there are so many lives lost, sad that so many people are still incapable of thinking critically, sad that we're again one step further from an actual solution. it's mostly a sad affair. But fear, no.

Don't you think that the September 11 attacks produced fear? May be you are different but this is the normal feeling if you are seeing the Twin Towers collapsing while you take your children to preschool.