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How JetBrains Lost Years of Customer Loyalty in Just a Few Hours

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Re: How JetBrains Lost Years of Customer Loyalty in Just a Few Hours

#491

Post by mreiland »

mindcrime wrote: post #327
mreiland wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would like to see the software contract that includes indemnification for the software.

We don't have the final wording all worked out for all of that stuff. We've been pretty focused on product stuff for the past while, and only recently got to a point where we have a product actually available for sell, and we're still working on contracts / licenses and all that. But what I can tell you is that our approach will probably look a lot like what Red Hat does[1]. Basically, it's a guarantee that if you ge…

So you're not really indemnifying the software use itself, that's where the confusion came from.

Re: How JetBrains Lost Years of Customer Loyalty in Just a Few Hours

#492

Post by giaour »

bluecalm wrote: post #384
steven2012 wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If software developers expect to be paid well for their talents, the cost of software has to increase. And it's not just bugfix updates, it's new features and innovations.

But previous model catered for that: you buy a tool and x months of developers' work. If you want to buy more work (updates) you pay again. The incentives are nicely aligned here. With the rental model they aren't because you will have to pay for 20 years even if they stop developing the software. This trend is disturbing. It really is similar to not being able to buy an apartment, a car or a kitchen knife. With all…

Renting computers has always been pretty popular at the enterprise level. I believe there are a few steps trying to bring that model into the consumer market.

Re: How JetBrains Lost Years of Customer Loyalty in Just a Few Hours

#493

Post by mindcrime »

mreiland wrote: post #491
mindcrime wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We don't have the final wording all worked out for all of that stuff. We've been pretty focused on product stuff for the past while, and only recently got to a point where we have a product actually available for sell, and we're still working on contracts / licenses and all that. But what I can tell you is that our approach will probably look a lot like what Red Hat does[1]. Basically, it's a guarantee that if you ge…

So you're not really indemnifying the software use itself, that's where the confusion came from.

I'm not sure I understand the distinction you're making there.

We defend the company from issues using our software, arising from a 3rd party's IP claims. We wouldn't defend them if they used our software as part of an effort to hack into the Facebook's user database and stage a massive identity theft scheme.

Re: How JetBrains Lost Years of Customer Loyalty in Just a Few Hours

#494

Post by timv »

27182818284 wrote: post #103

Everyone I've talked to wanted a slight pricing model change with JetBrains, myself included, but nobody wanted a subscription service. It is just that, often you find yourself wanting PHPStorm, and PyCharms, but that's it. A simple buy one-full-price-half-off-second scheme would have got people like me to say, "yeah sure, let's buy up PyCharms this weekend. Why not?"

And the thing is, they didn't even solve the issue people wanted.

Yes, you can buy everything for US$19.90 per month.

Or you can buy PHPStorm+PyCharm for ($7.90+$7.90) = $15.80

So, under the new model, it's still cheaper to just buy two full-price licenses. There's no discount for the 2nd product.

Re: How JetBrains Lost Years of Customer Loyalty in Just a Few Hours

#495

Post by chrisbennet »

jacquesm wrote: post #213

I would like to encourage everybody that does not like the new licensing scheme of JetBrains to band together and produce either an open source product that is as polished so it can be used for free or, alternatively to take this apparently huge business opportunity and run with it. I never quite understood what makes people that make 100's of thousands of dollars per year so cheap that they would balk at paying a fe…

How would you feel if your favorite machine tool manufactures decided that they would no longer sell you machine tools - only rent them?

How about if cars could no longer be owned, just leased?

This is why people are upset, not because they begrudge tool vendors getting paid.

Re: How JetBrains Lost Years of Customer Loyalty in Just a Few Hours

#496

Post by agumonkey »

nadams wrote: post #490
agumonkey wrote: post #444

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recently had to use Eclipse again, after 5+ years of Emacs mostly coding sessions, and boy it was tough. I kept thinking it's just one IDE, and others are better, thinking about IntelliJ. Heh. ps: people, take a look at Emacs, it really is nice, and only needs 8MB cough

> I kept thinking it's just one IDE, and others are better, thinking about IntelliJ. Heh. I usually don't endorse a product or service (different tools for different tasks and different people etc) but at least try out IntelliJ. I'm pretty sure there is a reason why Google decided to dump Eclipse in favor of IntelliJ as their officially supported IDE. You may be able to crank out code faster using vi and/or emacs - b…

My English is often cryptic, it was flattering towards IntelliJ. Since long ago they wrote very useful code either infrastructure (their caching mechanism) or UX (thorough keyboard bindings).

What kind of errors did they fail to catch ? vi/emacs rely on external checkers, I don't know what IntelliJ uses, if they have an in-house fully fledged AST analyzer or if they reuse community made ones.

Re: How JetBrains Lost Years of Customer Loyalty in Just a Few Hours

#497

Post by mreiland »

mindcrime wrote: post #493
mreiland wrote: post #491

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you're not really indemnifying the software use itself, that's where the confusion came from.

I'm not sure I understand the distinction you're making there. We defend the company from issues using our software, arising from a 3rd party's IP claims. We wouldn't defend them if they used our software as part of an effort to hack into the Facebook's user database and stage a massive identity theft scheme.

software use

as in, problems that occur from actually using the software. As opposed to IP claims which is typically over the source code, not the software itself.

For example, if you write a realtime scheduling component that Toyota ends up using in their vehicle software, and someone dies due to a problem with the realtime scheduling, you do not protect Toyota from the resulting lawsuit.

Re: How JetBrains Lost Years of Customer Loyalty in Just a Few Hours

#498

Post by [deleted] »

rebootthesystem wrote: post #404
jordigh wrote: post #389

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Language such as "exactly zero", "dork around", "mess around" sounds aggressive, as if people who decide to hack on their tools were beneath you. When you say "utter waste of time" on people who do enjoy working on their vimrc or init.el or whatever, it sounds like you think the person themself is a waste of a person. When you mention how many years you have, you sound pompous, as if you were stating your opinions as…

You are going out of your way to ascribe meaning where it doesn't exist. Not sure what to say. When I say "I have exactly zero interest" it means exactly that. If it offends you the problem isn't mine.

[deleted]

Re: How JetBrains Lost Years of Customer Loyalty in Just a Few Hours

#499

Post by [deleted] »

rebootthesystem wrote: post #404
jordigh wrote: post #389

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Language such as "exactly zero", "dork around", "mess around" sounds aggressive, as if people who decide to hack on their tools were beneath you. When you say "utter waste of time" on people who do enjoy working on their vimrc or init.el or whatever, it sounds like you think the person themself is a waste of a person. When you mention how many years you have, you sound pompous, as if you were stating your opinions as…

You are going out of your way to ascribe meaning where it doesn't exist. Not sure what to say. When I say "I have exactly zero interest" it means exactly that. If it offends you the problem isn't mine.

[deleted]

Re: How JetBrains Lost Years of Customer Loyalty in Just a Few Hours

#500

Post by anjanb »

aantix wrote: post #237
anjanb wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with all your points. I have used jetbrains products for 15 years so I feel sad that this is how they are going to lose me and other customers. I was hoping they would come with an IDE for golang and I would buy that as well. Now, this is a big disappointment.

So your license price jumps from $89 to $120/yr and now you're no longer a customer? Do you not think their tools probably make up for that $120/yr in terms of your productivity? If you struggle with Netbeans or Eclipse for an hour or two with something IntelliJ does easily, you've already paid for your license. I don't understand arguing about peanuts; pay it the trivial increase and get on with the show of making r…

I want to upgrade when I want to. I don't want to be forced to upgrade just to continue using the product! This is main grouse.
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