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France to ban unsolicited telemarketing calls

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Re: France to ban unsolicited telemarketing calls

#481

Post by 9dev »

kibibu wrote: post #287
embedding-shape wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Spain we have something called "Lista Robinson" (in Sweden exists something similar, called "NIX-registret") which are basically opt-in lists where you can enter your phone number, then once the new lists been distributed, the telemarketing companies cannot call you, if they're doing things properly. If they call anyway, you just mention you're on the list, they hang up, and remove your number from the list they h…

I need this. I've had bloody Freshworks calling me every single day for the past month, even though I ask them to remove me from their list every time. It doesn't matter if I ask nicely, whether I listen to their pitch or don't, whether I make threats, they still call. I will never, ever, work with Freshworks, Freshdesk, Freshservice, or any of their other products as a direct result of this.

As crude as it sounds; try pulling a madman show. Cussing, screaming, threatening to go after them, completely loosing it. I suspect they have a field for notes in the agent database and will mark you as difficult or improbable lead, and stop calling.

Re: France to ban unsolicited telemarketing calls

#482

Post by JumpCrisscross »

RiverCrochet wrote: post #431
wpietri wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Walk me through an example here. I'm a telemarketer who calls you up, sells you on something, and charges your card. What changes in that scenario?

I report the fraud to my card company. The card company reverses the charges and purses action against the fraudster if possible. The card company then tells me that because contracts made over the phone are null and void, using the credit card to make purchases over the phone is not allowed and doing it again will result in my account being closed or a penalty fee being assessed. The long term effect may be that cre…

> report the fraud to my card company. The card company reverses the charges

This already happens almost reflexively.

> long term effect may be that credit card companies stop supporting remote transactions that don't use biometrics+attestation or the physical card

Then I drop that card and switch to a competitor who doesn't do this.

Re: France to ban unsolicited telemarketing calls

#483

Post by nkrisc »

DEF14A wrote: post #433
nkrisc wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a consumer, I don’t want you to find me. I’ll find you when I need you. There are places that list businesses, like the yellow pages of old, or place ads in publications that are relevant to the services or products you offer. If you sell tires, and I don’t need tires, I don’t want to hear or see anything about tires.

As someone who used to be in SaaS sales selling a complex platform, this might be the case for you if you're constantly doing a lot of research and keeping up with the market, but it's not for the vast majority of others. I can't tell you how many software engineers and leaders I cold called who thought our platform did one thing, but was surprised to learn we GA'ed a different capability, and then they'd mention the…

Cold calling people at work is different than calling them at home when they’re not working.

Re: France to ban unsolicited telemarketing calls

#484

Post by wpietri »

epolanski wrote: post #391
wpietri wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again, please explain the details of what you're thinking. If I get a card number, type it into my POS system, collect money, and send you a product, who's going to stop me?

You can't ask for this data over phone, you can't pay over phone.

I obviously can. I can call anybody and ask them for all sorts of stuff. I'm asking what, in your proposed world, would stop me.

Re: France to ban unsolicited telemarketing calls

#485

Post by embedding-shape »

Kon5ole wrote: post #480
embedding-shape wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess it's my word against yours :) What should we do?

>I guess it's my word against yours :) What should we do? It only takes one example of someone on the list getting scam calls to prove they don't work. And also, no matter how many on the list are not getting calls it doesn't prove it was because of the list.

We have very different definitions of "prove" clearly :)

Re: France to ban unsolicited telemarketing calls

#486

Post by Kon5ole »

infogulch wrote: post #479
Kon5ole wrote: post #478

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But your idea is basically that the telco pays anyone 90 dollars per spam call they receive, how does that become a profit center? They can't get the money from the spammers, if they could this wouldn't be a problem in the first place.

They get the money from the peer networks that are the source of the spammers. If they don't cough up then you void your peering agreement. If they try to route around through a different trusted peer then that peer takes the hit. If its your own customers then you can do something about it. VOIP peers would quickly run into trouble and they'd probably require new customers to keep a spam deposit, carefully monitor t…

>They get the money from the peer networks that are the source of the spammers.

What peer networks? Vodaphone, AT&T or whatever the largest operator in India is? You're going to cut off India because someone there calls people claiming to be Microsoft selling antivirus protection? Refuse calls from AT&T?

Nah man, you're not. Also not from a customer that ordered 100 numbers last month and is defunct this month, leaving you with 100 000 confirmed spam calls to pay for.

If it was possible to simply charge the spammers money, this wouldn't be a problem in the first place.

Re: France to ban unsolicited telemarketing calls

#487

Post by Kon5ole »

embedding-shape wrote: post #395
wolvoleo wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am on that list and have been for years but it doesn't help me at all. I did stop getting spam calls but not scams. Scammers are criminals anyway so they don't give a shit about that list. I especially get a LOT of energy scams. They pretend to be from Endesa and they have my details somehow (some company must have provided it to them or it was leaked by a criminal employee). They're usually calling from numbers in…

That's so strange, both me, my wife and friends and family had similar issues years ago, before I put everyone into Lista Robinson, and it worked for all of us, easily 10+ people throughout the years. I wonder why it's so different between people. Does it depend on the region perhaps? We're all in Catalunya for what it's worth. Maybe double-check the details, I remember for one person it didn't work at first, and the…

The easy explanation is that the lists don't work and you and your friends are just lucky to not get spam calls. Yet.

I also noticed a drop when the GDPR kicked in, but it doesn't solve the problem. It ironically just removes the "most benign" telemarketing from serious co's.

Re: France to ban unsolicited telemarketing calls

#488

Post by Melatonic »

9dev wrote: post #481
kibibu wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I need this. I've had bloody Freshworks calling me every single day for the past month, even though I ask them to remove me from their list every time. It doesn't matter if I ask nicely, whether I listen to their pitch or don't, whether I make threats, they still call. I will never, ever, work with Freshworks, Freshdesk, Freshservice, or any of their other products as a direct result of this.

As crude as it sounds; try pulling a madman show. Cussing, screaming, threatening to go after them, completely loosing it. I suspect they have a field for notes in the agent database and will mark you as difficult or improbable lead, and stop calling.

Or just answer the call and immediately play back the sound of a 56k modem or fax machine. On repeat. ( I have no idea if this actually works )

Re: France to ban unsolicited telemarketing calls

#489

Post by Fnoord »

mcv wrote: post #477
Fnoord wrote: post #401

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Next one who calls you is likely a colleague of the one who just phoned you. Don't inform the colleague you cannot be converted to a sale. Let them waste their time, not reaching their targets.

Yeah, but then they're also wasting my time. Maybe I'd need an app that recognises the scam call, and then lets an AI waste their time.

I meant that from the scammers viewpoint, and their colleague/competitor).

If I was a scammer, I'd target people who were rich, and the elder. I would use leaked datasets to find these people. And then I wouldn't give up after I failed once, but guards are up if a scam failed, so seems not useful to retry.

But honestly, those scammers you mention seem low hanging fruit.

Yes, you could forward an Android call to Asterisk server and use STT (Voxstral has real-time module), LLM, and TTS to generate a reply. But I think the added latency is going to be problematic.

I wish you all the best, I hate marketing, but I hate liars even more.

Re: France to ban unsolicited telemarketing calls

#490

Post by ssl-3 »

timoth3y wrote: post #198

This is a great move by France, but most of the rest of the world does not suffer from the telemarketing scam hell that Americans do. I am a US citizen living overseas. I have a US cell number that is only used for 2FA for US financial institutions. No one else has that number. I get more scam calls every day on that number than I do in a year on my local number. It's crazy. Most of the world has solved the worst of…

Is it possible someone had your number before it was yours, and that they were a hot target for spam?

My US phone numbers over the years[1] have normally been very quiet, but I've had a couple that were quite spammy.

[1]: I've been switching providers/MVNOs every time I've found one with a better deal -- for decades. I never, ever port the old number, so I've had a good number of them.

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