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Apple decided not to roll out Siri in EU after denied request for exemption

reuters.com

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Re: Apple decided not to roll out Siri in EU after denied request for exemption

#481

Post by rambambram »

burnte wrote: post #313
afavour wrote: post #2

Apple said "hey, can we not comply with the law", the EU said no, so it didn't launch. Seems pretty straightforward to me. I can see why Apple might want to request an 18 month exemption, there's clearly extra work required to comply with EU regulations. But on the other hand it also feels like a straightforward play for consumer sympathy: let them get used to using it every day for 18 months, then pressure the EU to…

> It's not as if Apple doesn't have the money to dedicate a team to matching the EU's requirements on a deadline. They just choose not to. Exactly, that's actually why I LIKE this decision so much. I'm not on Apple's side, but I REALLY like the idea that a company just says, "Fine, we'll comply by not even offering this product." It's a perfectly legitimate choice, and it FORCED Apple to evaluate the pros and cons. I…

> While I like a lot of Euro regulations, some of the privacy ones go too far with the whole "we're going to enforce this on the whole world" crap.

Care to explain? EU is also a jurisdiction, so why would EU law be legal in other areas than EU?

Re: Apple decided not to roll out Siri in EU after denied request for exemption

#482

Post by krzyk »

mantas wrote: post #118
ivan_gammel wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Privacy by design isn‘t enormous effort, as every European engineering manager will tell you. It‘s just another reasonable and straightforward set of requirements. Of course, if you want to have privacy-less features in jurisdictions permitting it, that‘s a different story and that‘s a choice.

In this case it looks like EU is requiring to let competitors mess with Apple users privacy.

Not quite. It is up to Apple to design a system in which operators (even Apple) can't see your data. Apparently they designed it in a way that operator can see it (so it is cool if it is Apple, but not cool if it is someone else).

Re: Apple decided not to roll out Siri in EU after denied request for exemption

#483

Post by BurningFrog »

shykes wrote: post #429
Nifty3929 wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, exactly! Also forced EU voters to consider how much they value these services, and whether the regulations are worth it not to have them, or to have watered down versions of them. I say this without judgment - I see it as a legitimate area of consideration. I think the worst is hugely impactful laws for which exceptions are constantly carved out so nobody can truly evaluate whether the law/reg is a good one or n…

> Also forced EU voters to consider how much they value these services It's been a while since I left Europe, and I'm rusty on that particular layer of civics. Do EU voters actually have a say in this kind of regulation? Or is it all decided on the executive side which is only accountable to member states and not to individual citizens?

You get to vote for one of ~5 alternatives every 4 years. This then propagates to hundreds of decisions in a way that dilutes your influence to practically nothing.

Re: Apple decided not to roll out Siri in EU after denied request for exemption

#484

Post by Muromec »

eastbound wrote: post #456
asdfasgasdgasdg wrote: post #445

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They do have a say. They can elect representatives who could change the legal framework and the incentives for the bureaucrats, or even remove the ability of the bureaucrats to regulate certain things. Then these regulations would not get passed and that would be that.

We have a say at a 4th level of derived decision, which is 2 levels more than what people call a democracy. Also, the other political party will do it too. = We don’t have a say. We voted NO to the new EU treaties in 2008 and the new president decided that electing him meant that we approved the same treaties. They only let us vote when we agree, anyway.

The lower chamber of parliament that votes on the regulation is directly elected and can rewrite and amend proposals. The higher chamber (EU Council) is comprised from government (or state?) heads which are either directly of indirectly elected with a length of 1. The commission (executive branch) that drafts the laws that are amended and passed by the parliament is voted in by a parliament which is directly elected.

Where do you get 4th level of deriviation exactly?

Re: Apple decided not to roll out Siri in EU after denied request for exemption

#485

Post by bnj »

alt227 wrote: post #339
bnj wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that does have to do with privacy. Apple wants to implement features that access data locally. It doesn’t want to allow competition for offering those features, but if it did, competitors may use that access to local data to exfiltrate. So it is about both competition and, as a result of creating competition, privacy.

Thats what Apple wants you to think. In reality it has nothing to do with privacy. Apple could let 3rd parties tap into these APIs but only after the user clicks away a big scary message telling the user they are leaving the comfort of the apple curated garden. This allows competition, but also allows privacy for those who want it. See? Simple really, but Apple being Apple dont want to let 3rd parties use its AI APIs…

Big scary warnings aren’t a solution either. I watch the way my son interacts with consent screens and warnings, and it’s barely believable- the average person is very well trained to click through the warnings.

Someone might believe that people who ignore the warnings deserve everything they get, but I respectfully disagree. I remember helping my grandma uninstall and remove all the hostile browser extensions that had tricked her into installing them. If Apple is protecting vulnerable populations by taking the choice out of the users hands, even if it’s only profit motivated, I’m okay with that until someone presents an alternative that actually addresses those needs.

Re: Apple decided not to roll out Siri in EU after denied request for exemption

#486

Post by krzyk »

MBCook wrote: post #214
ErneX wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or really anywhere, since it comes out in Fall. Unless you count developer betas as available of course.

It’s also only in English initially. They can only do so much at once. And Apple is not a “hire an extra 30,000 people“ kind of company. Apple usually rolls stuff out in stages. This is just an extremely high profile example.

Has anyone seen a recent LLM release that supports just one language?

Re: Apple decided not to roll out Siri in EU after denied request for exemption

#488

Post by Muromec »

Saline9515 wrote: post #465
solid_fuel wrote: post #449

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have anything to back up that claim, or is it just knee-jerk drivel with no evidence based on your feelings and distrust of scary government bureaucrats?

Why is chatcontrol being pushed every year by the european commission, while people and their representatives are in majority against it? Besides given the amount of lobbying in the EU institutions, it's obvious that citizens don't have a chance against corpos with infinite money.

Because puritans gonna puritan and security services want to read your comms. That's like any day of the week everywhere since forever.

Re: Apple decided not to roll out Siri in EU after denied request for exemption

#489

Post by Muromec »

Saline9515 wrote: post #466
yxhuvud wrote: post #454

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are you talking about, DMA has passed in the parliament.

The parliament doesn't get to choose the laws it has to vote. The parliament can't repell a law, and doesn't hold the pen during negociations.

This isn't exactly true. They can't propose but they can amend. The final text has to be agreed by the commission, the lower chamber (the parliament) and the higher chamber (the council, which is heads of states).

Re: Apple decided not to roll out Siri in EU after denied request for exemption

#490

Post by shaky-carrousel »

afavour wrote: post #2

Apple said "hey, can we not comply with the law", the EU said no, so it didn't launch. Seems pretty straightforward to me. I can see why Apple might want to request an 18 month exemption, there's clearly extra work required to comply with EU regulations. But on the other hand it also feels like a straightforward play for consumer sympathy: let them get used to using it every day for 18 months, then pressure the EU to…

Seeing how abysmally bad is Apple with all AI related, they are doing us Europeans a favor by having Americans as alpha testers.
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