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California moves to exempt Linux from its age-verification law after backlash

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Re: California moves to exempt Linux from its age-verification law after backlash

#481

Post by Ajedi32 »

fc417fc802 wrote: post #479
Ajedi32 wrote: post #464

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The standard OP is describing doesn't exist. So whether it "fails to achieve most of the social goals" is yet to be determined. Blocking unrated content seems like a pretty desirable feature to me. Why wouldn't that be one of the "social goals"?

You can turn on filtering and subscribe to a whitelist today. People don't seem to be satisfied with that solution. Why not? The answer to that question is what needs to be solved.

There's no web standard for labeling content, so "subscribe to a whitelist" today means crappy page or network-level content blocks implemented by a third party tool that has no understanding of the actual content on the page or application. That's not at all what's being proposed in this thread.

With a universal labeling standard the UX would be much better, and there'd be a much greater incentive for website owners to participate (they'd be implementing a universal standard, not adding support for one particular parental control tool).

Re: California moves to exempt Linux from its age-verification law after backlash

#482

Post by subscribed »

fhn wrote: post #124
cyberax wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> what can I do to keep them away from stuff 99% of people agree isn't for children to see, without something like this? Nothing. VPNs exist (including free ones), some of classmates will have unlocked devices, etc. Next question?

block all VPNs?

You mean all vpn protocols? Otherwise in the next step you'll call to ban of all dedicated servers, vpses and compute from hyperscalers.

Also make sure to block all OSes allowing to install apps from outside the app store, lest someone uses a private socks proxy on their free Cloudflare Worker account.

Make sure to ban/backdoor all the encryption protocols so the traffic not yet blocked can be analysed. And ban all free OSes or someone will write a "black market" encryption/communication protocol.

There's insanity in your request and it needs to be called out.

Re: California moves to exempt Linux from its age-verification law after backlash

#483

Post by dpkirchner »

stouset wrote: post #313
dpkirchner wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surely parents can look at the sites and decide for themselves whether or not they are suitable.

I am certain that with even two minutes of thought you can understand why this makes zero sense.

I thought for more than two minutes before replying, so I guess not. What makes it difficult for someone who cares about what their child looks at online to determine for themselves what sites are suitable?

Re: California moves to exempt Linux from its age-verification law after backlash

#484

Post by mmooss »

tangotaylor wrote: post #239
mmooss wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's great, thank you. > copy, redistribute, and modify the software Shouldn't that specify the code not or not only the software ? For example, the corporate Windows license allows the corporation to copy, redistribute (internally), and modify (via group policy, APIs, or development on the Windows platform) the software . The big difference between that and Linux is licensees can't access the code . FOSS requires…

Honestly you're probably right, code is a better term. I copied that language from Colorado's SB26-051 bill which also has a FOSS exemption and they use the word "software". I'm not a lawyer but I'm hoping that a court's interpretation of one state's language will apply to other states. That and lots of FOSS licenses use some variant of those words "copy, redistribute, and modify" so it's probably a term-of-art that…

I suppose using the broader term, software, doesn't hurt FOSS. It just might extend the law to others.

Re: California moves to exempt Linux from its age-verification law after backlash

#485

Post by Bender »

Ajedi32 wrote: post #476
Bender wrote: post #471

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again, RTA header doesn't work because it's a blacklist, not a whitelist, and also because it's only granular enough to say "this is a porn website" and nothing else. None of that is true. Not even close. It will work if there are laws with big teeth as the government can have contractors that scan for the header. Header missing? Adult content? User provided adult content even if it violates the rules? Well darn, the…

That's incorrect. The existing RTA header is for marking porn as porn.[1][2] (In case English isn't your first language, "adult website" is a euphemism.) An actually useful standard would need to be much more granular, and be designed as a whitelist not a blacklist, as I and previous commenters said. [1]: https://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/MetaExtensions#:~:text=Restrict... [2]: https://webmasters.stackexchange.com/q/14073…

I disagree. Restricted To Adults means Restricted To Adults. The header can literally be used on any website that one is self describing as for adults. One could put it on a site that sells firearms for example. It could be applied to a siteThere are no restrictions. Team Dang could put it on news.ycombinator.com if they so desired. There is nothing and nobody that could stop them. I put it on my blogs even though there is no porn. The header can be used on anything that serves up HTTP and the meta tag can be put on any HTML page that may not be appropriate for children.

Here [1] is the only external link that is relevant and don't take their banner out of context. This was originally by the adult entertainment industry to self label and self regulate but is now used on any site that is not appropriate for minors. Entertainment could be inappropriate humor for example. That does require porn. I would link to some inappropriate humor but that would be inappropriate.

"The RTA Label is free to use, voluntary, and universally available to any website that wishes to clearly and effectively label itself as being inappropriate for viewing by minors."

[1] - https://www.rtalabel.org/page.php

Re: California moves to exempt Linux from its age-verification law after backlash

#486

Post by tardedmeme »

dessimus wrote: post #434
Geezus_42 wrote: post #413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, 99.9% of the mail I get is trash and is delivered by USPS. You can't even recycle most of it because of the paper they are printed on. It's a huge, disgusting waste of resources on multiple levels.

> It's a huge, disgusting waste of resources on multiple levels. The companies on the ads wouldn't do it that way if they were not getting a positive ROI from it. They probably only need to get 2 maybe 3 new customers to offset the cost of mass mailings.

This isn't true. Proctor and Gamble cancelled $200m of advertising and saw no change in sales. And companies using AI are costing more money to produce worse quality stuff more slowly. Facts don't matter, only how well you can convince a CEO.

Re: California moves to exempt Linux from its age-verification law after backlash

#487

Post by tardedmeme »

soraminazuki wrote: post #430
tardedmeme wrote: post #391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you really believe that your computer asking you if you're over 18 is government spying? I don't believe that you really believe that.

And how exactly do you validate your age? Government-issued IDs. Attaching government-issued IDs to every digital activity is the surveillance apparatus's wet dream, and it's not like these motives are hidden. So between this and equating opponents of this policy with cryptobros in your other comment, I have a hard time believing your accusation of bad faith as anything other than good old DARVO. It's also the tired…

... You don't. Did you actually read the law you're complaining about? It says the OS shall ask the person who creates an account what is the age bracket for that account. No verification is required. In fact the same law makes it illegal to verify this.

Re: California moves to exempt Linux from its age-verification law after backlash

#488

Post by tardedmeme »

kyledrake wrote: post #441
tardedmeme wrote: post #418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The law defines it as a product quality issue. Meaning you can return it for a refund and a company that keeps selling broken products may be ordered to recall them or to stop selling them until they're fixed. You can't go to jail for selling broken products, and this doesn't apply to free software since it's free and has no warranty (which is only allowed because of the fact that it's free.). Do you think the rule t…

> The law defines it as a product quality issue. Meaning you can return it for a refund and a company that keeps selling broken products may be ordered to recall them or to stop selling them until they're fixed. And if they refuse to do all of this and resist, what happens to them? If you want a sample, stop paying your taxes, stuff your money under your mattress and see what ultimately happens. Just because our gove…

idk, what happens to someone who keeps giving away lead-painted toys for free?

Re: California moves to exempt Linux from its age-verification law after backlash

#489

Post by dessimus »

tardedmeme wrote: post #486
dessimus wrote: post #434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's a huge, disgusting waste of resources on multiple levels. The companies on the ads wouldn't do it that way if they were not getting a positive ROI from it. They probably only need to get 2 maybe 3 new customers to offset the cost of mass mailings.

This isn't true. Proctor and Gamble cancelled $200m of advertising and saw no change in sales. And companies using AI are costing more money to produce worse quality stuff more slowly. Facts don't matter, only how well you can convince a CEO.

Most of my physical junk mail is from local businesses like Eye Doctors, Dentists, or Trades, not National Brands unless its a local franchisee.

Re: California moves to exempt Linux from its age-verification law after backlash

#490

Post by iamalizard »

kelnos wrote: post #312
iamalizard wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In some countries they scan you ID and likely keep it some database when you buy drugs or enter bars or clubs. In others they just look at your ID card if you don't look old enough. The first example is bad, the second is tolerable. But the reason most kids don't smoke is that the parents and the teachers instilled in them that it was bad. If a kid wants to smoke or drink, they can surely get an older friend or a fri…

> But the reason most kids don't smoke is that the parents and the teachers instilled in them that it was bad. Big honking "citation needed" there. I think it's far more likely that laws against advertising to minors, and tightening enforcement of prohibiting the sale to minors, is what did it. On top of it all, smoking has decreased among adults too. Part of that is certainly cutting off a big chunk of the teen-to-a…

Most of the adult smokers I know, including myself, are very well aware of the health risks and don't consider it cool and never have - what does that even mean?
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