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Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent

dailyprincetonian.com

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Re: Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent

#481

Post by Schlagbohrer »

expedition32 wrote: post #292
hcurtiss wrote: post #2

Princeton is a strange place. What on earth could be the objection to proctoring? I'd much rather have a proctor than have to narc on a classmate. And even then, the proctor just reports the matter to a student-run body? Wild.

I would never NARC on someone shoplifting or dealing drugs but cheating on exams? Yeah no fuck you we're not India here. That's your future cardiologist.

Why did the other comment by s5300 get downvoted literally to death? Many people who have suffered first hand at the depravity of the american medical system are right to be furious about it. Is this forum full of cardiologists and medical staff?

Re: Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent

#482

Post by ben_w »

kdheiwns wrote: post #403
elgertam wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's more about America transitioning from a high-trust society to a low-trust one. We're talking about Princeton , here. Trust among elites remains persistently high. In fact, it's likely higher than ever due to assortative mating & geographic sorting. Elites, even students in the Ivies, still have trust of government and elite institutions, which the elite stratum itself runs. Trust between elites and lower strat…

> Trust among elites remains persistently high I don't think any human alive believes this. The "elite" are just known as being scammers who lie and BS about everything very openly and they'd sell their own child if it got them a dollar. The past 10 years have been nothing but "elites" churning scams and paying bribes and bragging about it. They most certainly aren't trusting each other. Just look at how the presiden…

I think Trump is an exception, a cult leader in the worst place possible.

The elite in-group trust hypothesis would however explain Musk sustaining an unreasonable Tesla share price in the face of falling sales, delayed launches to the extent competitors pre-empt him on his own announcements, and political toxicity to the extent his showrooms got smashed up and burned.

Re: Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent

#483

Post by silvestrov »

busyant wrote: post #346

I was a grad student @ Princeton a handful of decades ago. I was a TA for a few classes and, given the honor code, we did not proctor the exams for undergrads. We just handed them out (left the room) and returned to collect them at the end. - One of the exams in a course that I TAed had 5 free-response questions. - There were also 5 TAs in that class, so we un-stapled the exams and each TA graded one question (for co…

It's a very different world from the exams I had in Denmark, both uni and high school:

* all exams were proctored

* the proctoring were done by external people hired to do this.

* you could not leave exam for the toilet without asking first and then being followed out by a watcher, which then would follow you back and check the toilet afterwards for notes.

* you were never handed back the papers you handed in.

* responses were judged both by your own teacher and by an independent teacher from another institution.

* you must use ballpoint pen (permanent) and not pencil. Pencil responses were ignored.

Today the studens are even handed Faraday-bags that their phones and smart watches must be kept in during the exam. Full instructions for exam watchers for a business school: https://www.nielsbrock.dk/da/om-niels-brock/til-eksamensvagt...

Re: Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent

#484

Post by drstewart »

rayiner wrote: post #473
hattmall wrote: post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These sort of unmanned roadside stands are all over the southern US.

In major cities? LKY was talking about an unmanned newspaper stand and cash box in Trafalgar Square. Would that work in Times Square today?

Would it work in Trafalgar Square today?

Re: Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent

#485

Post by rcbdev »

csiegert wrote: post #376
busyant wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no recollection of the student's name. ~150 students in the class, so they were all a blur. This was also a few years before the web took hold, so I could not have "Google-stalked" her even if I had been so inclined. I do remember my fellow TA's name! But that's probably not surprising.

[flagged]

This is not Reddit.com, neither is it SA or any other forum you confused HN with.

Re: Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent

#486

Post by throwaway2037 »

CSMastermind wrote: post #275

People blame AI but in reality it's more about America transitioning from a high-trust society to a low-trust one.

Did you get that idea from here? https://www.persuasion.community/p/getting-to-denmark

Francis Fukuyama wrote in a recent blog post: "The United States is no longer a high-trust country. We must regain what’s been lost."

I object to these "wide brush" social commentaries. Normally, they are written by powerful/famous men and frequently negative. I call it "Packaged Doomerism". The US is so huge that is hard to generalise about its culture. There are at least six distinctive cultural regions. Take California as an example: There is a surprisingly large cultural gap between the north (Bay Area) and south (LA/Orange/San Diego). That is just one state. In the same way that the US is huge, so is Europe -- about 50 countries. I cringe when I see the phrase, "In Europe, ..."

Re: Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent

#487

Post by biofox »

silvestrov wrote: post #483
busyant wrote: post #346

I was a grad student @ Princeton a handful of decades ago. I was a TA for a few classes and, given the honor code, we did not proctor the exams for undergrads. We just handed them out (left the room) and returned to collect them at the end. - One of the exams in a course that I TAed had 5 free-response questions. - There were also 5 TAs in that class, so we un-stapled the exams and each TA graded one question (for co…

It's a very different world from the exams I had in Denmark, both uni and high school: * all exams were proctored * the proctoring were done by external people hired to do this. * you could not leave exam for the toilet without asking first and then being followed out by a watcher, which then would follow you back and check the toilet afterwards for notes. * you were never handed back the papers you handed in. * resp…

Exactly the same as my experience in the UK.

Re: Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent

#488

Post by rcbdev »

mock-possum wrote: post #446
rayiner wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Parts of America still are high trust: https://qctimes.com/entertainment/dining/article_5371e735-53... When Lee Kuan Yew visited London for the first time after World War II, he was impressed by the fact that it had unattended newspaper stands where people were trusted to take a newspaper and leave money: https://youtu.be/b_6H26fpZp8 . As someone from a low trust society, I fully concur with his assessment that this…

Literally bought pumpkins to carve, firewood for the stove, and a carton of eggs from unmanned ‘honor system’ roadside stands last year. All three made it easy, venmo code posted, boop, on your way.

> Venmo code posted

This is the mark of a low-trust society masking its issues with technological band-aids. In high-trust countries, you still pay exclusively with cash at these unattended roadside stands.

Re: Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent

#489

Post by rcbdev »

prawn wrote: post #422
bdlowery wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Canadians?!

I think he is alluding to increased immigration from low-trust cultures. Many of these visitors who were granted asylum or student stays are by now fully Canadian. So yes, Canadians.

Re: Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent

#490

Post by throwaway2037 »

meroes wrote: post #452
marsten wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is exactly right. Gone are the days when you could get a C+ average at Harvard and still land a good job or a spot in a prestigious law program – purely by virtue of having gone to Harvard. Everyone is in competition now. Everyone has to prove their worth, all the time. It's more egalitarian but it also creates a lot of stress.

Egalitarian? Let me explain healthcare right now. To get into a radiation tech program, there are 260 applicants, almost all with all As, for 20 slots at my local community college. Maybe in the very first instant you’d think it’s merit based. But, EVERYONE is playing the game. Getting homework and tests from friends who already took the class, taking classes at several different schools to get the easier teachers, p…

Real question: If people are that good at grinding (it is a legit skill), why don't they go for something better, like a 4-year university degree in STEM or medicine? They can make much more money.

Also, how do they decide which students to pick? And I would love to know the gender ratio.

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