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Amateur armed with ChatGPT solves an Erdős problem

scientificamerican.com

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Re: Amateur armed with ChatGPT solves an Erdős problem

#481

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Remember when people thought solving Erdos problems required intelligence? Is there anything an LLM could ever do that would cound as intelligence? Surely the trend has to break at some point, if so what would be the thing that crosses the line to into real intelligence?

When will LLM folks realize that automated theorem provers have existed for decades and non-ML theorem provers have solved non-trivial Math problems tougher than this Erdos problem. Proposing and proving something like Gödel's theorem's definitely requires intelligence. Solving an already proposed problem is just crunching through a large search space.

> Proposing

I think GIT is a negative answer to a problem originally posed by David Hilbert. It was not proposed by Goedel originally. I think Goedel's main new idea was (i) inventing Goedel numbering (ii) using Goedel numbering to show that provability from a finite FOL signature, and a single FOL formula, is reducible to an equation involving primitive recursive functions (iii) devising a method to translate FOL statements about arbitrary primitive recursive functions into statements about only the two primitive recursive functions + and ×.

Later work establishing the field of computability theory (or "recursive function theory" as it was then known) generalised the insights (i) and (ii). In light of that, Goedel's only now-relevant contribution is (iii).

> When will LLM folks realize that automated theorem provers have existed for decades

This is very misinformed. Automated theorem proving was, sadly, mostly a disappointment until LLMs and other Machine Learning techniques came along. Nothing like the article's result was remotely within reach.

Re: Amateur armed with ChatGPT solves an Erdős problem

#482

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>don't search the internet. I think this was key. Otherwise the LLM could think it can't be done.

But it was trained on the internet.

That doesn’t mean that it contains the internet verbatim.

Re: Amateur armed with ChatGPT solves an Erdős problem

#483

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I reject the premise. I read the outputs I generate carefully (too carefully, probably). They don't "continue to output nonsense". Their success rate exceeds that of humans in some places. To clarify: the problem I have with "statistical text generator" isn't the word "statistical". It's "text generator". It's been two years now since that stopped being a reasonable way to completely encapsulate what these systems do…

Do you think it's akin to Ilya's [1] claim that next token prediction is reality? E.g. any deeper claims about the structure of that intelligence or comparing to humans? To be clear, I'm 100% with you that "next token predictor" is stupid to call what these machines are now. We are engineers and can shape the capability landscape to give rise to a ton of emergent behavior. It's kind of amazing. In that sense, being p…

I try really hard not to think about this stuff because I've seen how people talk when they get too deep into it. My mental model, or mental superstructure, if you will, for all of this stuff is that we've discovered a fundamentally novel and effective way of doing computing. Computer science is fascinating and I'm there for it, and prickly when people are dismissive of it. I'm generally not interested in the theory of human intelligence (it's a super interesting problem I just happen not to engage with much), which spares me from a lot of crazy Internet stuff.

Re: Amateur armed with ChatGPT solves an Erdős problem

#484
post #336
post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I find fascinating about the shared prompt isn’t just the result, but the visible thinking process. Math papers usually skip all the messy parts and just present the polished proof. But here you get something closer to their notepad. I also find it oddly endearing when the AI says things like “Interesting!” It almost feels like a researcher encouraging themselves after a small progress. It gives me rare feeling…

> the AI says things like “Interesting!” My experience of those utterance is that it’s purely phatic mimicry: they lack genuine intuitive surprise, it’s just marking a very odd shift in direction. The problem isn’t the lack of path, is that the rhetorical follow-up to those leaps are usually relevant results, so they stream-of-token ends up rapidly over-playing its own conviction. That’s why it’s necessary (and often…

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Re: Amateur armed with ChatGPT solves an Erdős problem

#485
post #436

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It has an “high effort” mode that makes it think really long

Ahhhh... you need ChatGPT pro at 100 bucks/month. Am I correct?

I believe so. With Pro you get “Thinking” with levels Light, Standard, Extended, and Heavy; and you also get the “Pro” model with levels “Standard” and “Extended”.

I don’t often go to Pro as it does take a while like you saw here, but I do often use Thinking Heavy for high quality answers. Idk why, but i just get consistently worse results with Gemini (Gemini pro), where it’s just much lazier, eg won’t do actual searches unless explicitly told.

Re: Amateur armed with ChatGPT solves an Erdős problem

#486

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They explicitly say many of these disclaimers don't apply in the article.

Which one do you trust most, the disclaimers or the article?

You're not arguing in good faith here, but just to make this apparent to everyone else: the disclaimers talk about the general case of Erdos problems as a whole.

The article explicitly acknowledges them, but then says that the disclaimers don't apply in this specific case:

> ...experts have warned that these problems are an imperfect benchmark of artificial intelligence’s mathematical prowess. They range dramatically in both significance and difficulty, and many AI solutions have turned out to be less original than they appeared. The new solution—which Price got in response to a single prompt to GPT-5.4 Pro and posted on www.erdosproblems.com, a website devoted to the Erdős problems, just over a week ago—is different. The problem it solves has eluded some prominent minds, bestowing it some esteem. And more importantly, the AI seems to have used a totally new method for problems of this kind. It’s too soon to say with certainty, but this LLM-conceived connection may be useful for broader applications—something hard to find among recently touted AI triumphs in math.

So I don't see why I have to trust only one of only the other.

Furthermore, their assessment is backed up by direct quotes from Tao himself:

> “This one is a bit different because people did look at it, and the humans that looked at it just collectively made a slight wrong turn at move one,” says Terence Tao, a mathematician at the University of California, Los Angeles, who has become a prominent scorekeeper for AI’s push into his field. “What’s beginning to emerge is that the problem was maybe easier than expected, and it was like there was some kind of mental block.”... “We have discovered a new way to think about large numbers and their anatomy,” Tao says. “It’s a nice achievement. I think the jury is still out on the long-term significance.”

Re: Amateur armed with ChatGPT solves an Erdős problem

#487
post #476

The headline misses the most impressive part: ChatGPT one-shotted the problem. No turns, no retries, no mid-thinking steering from the user. One-shotting a problem like this would have been nearly unthinkable in 2025.

This was my main takeaway, it didn’t need the type of guidance we are accustomed to. A peak into the future perhaps? At least the future they are striving for

Re: Amateur armed with ChatGPT solves an Erdős problem

#488

What’s beginning to emerge is that the problem was maybe easier than expected, and it was like there was some kind of mental block Hindsight is 20/20.

most likely true, the near value of AI will finding the low hanging fruit that has been missed. And hopefully those discoveries will prove valuable to current processes

Re: Amateur armed with ChatGPT solves an Erdős problem

#489
post #368

Why on earth is nobody here talking about the sudden jump to use von Mangoldt function? The reasoning trace never types Λ, never types "von Mangoldt", and never invokes ∑_{q|n} Λ(q) = log n. There is a clear discontinuity at play. I remember an article on this, maybe a comment by Terence Tao himself, seen here, but cannot find it.

During training they gate with a lot of guardrails the format of the reasoning tokens output. They don't just use a reward for getting the correct answer during training but also reward human readable output. That said, if they didn't, the reasoning tokens that are the most efficient to get to the final correct answer during training would most likely look like a lot of gibberish.

There is a relationship between the tokens in the output in the model's vector space, that is the most important, and something hidden we will never see.

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