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Acetaminophen vs. ibuprofen

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Re: Acetaminophen vs. ibuprofen

#481

Post by pxtail »

belviewreview wrote: post #472
KacharKhan wrote: post #417

Doc here. One thing every single member of the general public needs to get drilled into them: Medical science is NOT intuitive. You cannot just read the mechanism of action of a drug and infer a dozen things from it. A drug's mechanism of action, its indication (when it ought to be used) and its adverse effects CANNOT simply be inferred logically from each other. Biology is orders of magnitude more complex than SE/CS…

Was the article flat out wrong or at least misleading in any way that might lead people to make poor decisions regarding which drug to take?

Yes, that's another issue - CS/IT seems to be unique that sharing knowledge and openly discussing problems is the norm, in other professions you can get finger wagging and some general "advice"

Re: Acetaminophen vs. ibuprofen

#482

Post by Nursie »

brainwad wrote: post #480
Nursie wrote: post #474

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is that many don't really want to. Those that actually want to can buy two boxes from two shops or ask the pharmacist for the big pack from behind the counter. This just adds a tiny amount of friction to impulsive attempts, which may be a classic cry for help or just someone in the depths of some sort of mental health episode. Such folks may think better of it the next day and a very small amount of inconve…

I just don't buy the paternalism. People have free will, if they want to do something they would regret later, it's still their right. That quote doesn't say what you think it means. It's not talking at all about whether suicides shifted to other methods; it only says that there was a secular decline in poisonings (-32%) and suicides in general (-10%) during the study, so they have to also discount some of the raw 48…

> People have free will, if they want to do something they would regret later, it's still their right.

Then this minor frictional measure is the very least of your worries. For a start, any given pharmacy has an entire pharmacopoea of compounds that people are kept away from for their own good. Not to mention liquor licensing rules making landlords cut folks off at a bar if visibly drunk etc. And guard rails to stop people climbing to high places. And ... preventing people from doing stupid shit in the moment is everywhere in our societies.

There are a heck of a lot of things I'd put higher up my list of concerns than "may have to visit two shops if wanting to kill myself"

Re: Acetaminophen vs. ibuprofen

#483

Post by pxtail »

7bit wrote: post #104
seemaze wrote: post #3

I grew up with the understanding that acetaminophen was the safe choice for fever or aches, and ibuprofen what the more potent compound for inflammation and severe pain. I recall casual anecdotes that "my doctor said 1.5x or 2x ibuprofen dose is ok when warranted" to address major incursions. I've never once thought about taking more than the recommended dosage of acetaminophen, largely because I had no expectation t…

If your doctor recommends to take a specific dose, take the specific dose. Don't half it. Taking half of stuff can also cause further damage. Like with antibiotics, where it can lead to bacteria becoming resistant. So don't be the "smarter" person. Do as your doctor says and if you have doubts, consult another doctor before just doing what you think is safe, but actually isn't.

Yes that's correct, but in doing so remember that only person that cares most about you and your health is YOU - doctor cares about you for 10-15min, then next patient is waiting, and the level of doctor's care is inversely proportional to the level of burnout.

Re: Acetaminophen vs. ibuprofen

#484

Post by smcleod »

ikr678 wrote: post #475
smcleod wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They do in NZ. Paracetamol is promoted as the safest, most well studied pain relief for short and chronic conditions. In Australia however they have just started limiting how many you can buy at a time for some reason while ibuprofen covers the chemist shelves without any such controls despite the risks.

IIRC it's because Paracetamol has low threshold for overdose, and is often blended in with other cold and flu medicines in Aus so it is easy to exceed daily dose if you are say, taking some conbination of paracetamol + Sudafed (paracetamol+decongestant) + drinking a Lemsip (lemony vitamin powder with more paracetamol). It is only packet size restricted in supermarkets, you can still buy bulk packs from chemists.

Chemist warehouse has big signs up saying you'll be limited to buying a pack of 24 in Melbourne.

Re: Acetaminophen vs. ibuprofen

#485

Post by nkrisc »

9x39 wrote: post #460
nkrisc wrote: post #400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a cultural difference. > In my case headaches are usually caused by sleep deprivation causing high sensitivity to external stimuli, muscle tension, dehydration, or some combination of that. So I'll first try to take a nap and/or stick to low-stimuli environments, have a good stretch and/or heated up massage pillow for the neck, and make a quick home-made oral rehydration solution with some salt and sugar. That…

Naps are fine depending on the white collar work, how much is asynchronous, etc. Reasonable accommodations are usually possible as long as it’s not shift work. Painkillers are an interesting question since we have direct to consumer ads (uncommon globally as it turns out) and for clearly some reasons, we get sicker than other nations independent of how capable medicine is. https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/harvard-…

> Naps are fine depending on the white collar work, how much is asynchronous, etc. Reasonable accommodations are usually possible as long as it’s not shift work.

Yeah, and it’s The people who are on their feet for a 12 hour shift who probably need it most.

Re: Acetaminophen vs. ibuprofen

#486

Post by lapcat »

vanderZwan wrote: post #479
lapcat wrote: post #399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All human minds are irrational, including mine. And yours.

I fail to see where anything I said implied that I disagree with that sentiment. Also, you were arguing we should not listen to pain when it's acting irrational, as in unreasonable. Then you switch to "all minds being irrational", as in actually not rational. That's not the same thing.

I have no interest in playing this silly analogy game. You can't have a "conversation" with your body any more than you can have a conversation with your pet cat. Hey cat, we're trying to save your damn life, so stop resisting the veterinarians and the pills!

If you have a point to make, then make it literally, not metaphorically.

Re: Acetaminophen vs. ibuprofen

#487

Post by wallst07 »

rekoil wrote: post #365
nbaugh1 wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well for one thing, in America, you gotta get back to work. Work a manual labor job or one where you're on your feet all day and sprained your ankle? Would you rather miss a week of pay (or worse lose your job) or take some pain killers and work through it?

Yeah I think this is the biggest difference. Here in Sweden if I get a headache that's bad enough I'll just take a sick day and there's not really much social stigma about that kind of behaviour unless it becomes a pattern that you don't seek medical help for. I work in an office, but Swedish law protects blue- and white-collared jobs the same in this regard.

FWIW I'm in the US and it's the same. If I have a headache I call in a sick day.

This is going to vary more between blue/white collar workers than same fields in different countries.

Re: Acetaminophen vs. ibuprofen

#488

Post by wallst07 »

brightball wrote: post #357
vanderZwan wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like this is one of those things where Europe and the US are very different, culturally speaking - I've lived in the Netherlands, Germany and now Sweden, and the amount of painkillers used and prescribed here seems much lower than what Americans tell me is normal in the US. Pain a warning signal from the body. It's something one should listen to, not just try to ignore and overrule. If I sprain my ankle it onl…

I've taken so much Advil/Ibuprofen in my life it would be impossible to count at this point. I always got headaches when I was younger and it didn't really stop until I went to college at a higher altitude. When I go back to my hometown, after a couple of days they come back. Some headaches will go away on their own with water or rest, but others that seem to go from one side of my forehead all the way down the same…

You're incredibly lucky that Advil/Ibuprofen has any affect on your headaches.

Imagine getting them every other day and no OTC has any affect. This is me until I went to a neurologist.

Botox + Triptans can usually stop mine ~98% of the time.

Re: Acetaminophen vs. ibuprofen

#489

Post by teiferer »

topham wrote: post #89

The right tool for the right job. When it comes to medication, in the right dosage. I'm aware of acetaminophen's down sides, and yet recently I was taking it combined with 2 other medications at the time. Why? Because all three medications are recommended for dealing with the issue I had. (Alone and in combination) The moment it wasn't helping further? Done. There is this broken idea, particularly apparent in North A…

I agree with your overall sentiment. But allow me some objections:

> There is this broken idea, particularly apparent in North America, but in western society that more is better for many things. It's not.

But it is. The faster I go, the earlier I arrive at a destination. The more I eat, the later I'll be hungry again. The more I pay, the more I can buy. The more I smile, the more people smile back. It's all-pervasive in life, and "more is better for many things" is just obviously true. Not for all things and there are limits of course.

> More pain killers don't do anything if they max out the relief they can give you, overloading their mechanism doesn't reduce anything, but taxing your liver or your kidneys.

A higher dose gets broken down slower, as in, the threshold below which the effect is reduced is reached later. Not a reason to damage your kidneys and better take smaller doses more often, but it's not fully accurate to say there is a limit and anything above has zero effect.

Re: Acetaminophen vs. ibuprofen

#490

Post by kazinator »

chermi wrote: post #403
kazinator wrote: post #20

You don't want either of these; what you want is naproxen. It works similarly, but stays a lot longer (half life is cited as being anywhere from 12 to 17 hours). Acetaminophen and ibuprofen are just for temporary problems, like a headache that would go away on its own in a couple of hours. They are uneconomic and inconvenient if you have something more persistent to keep at bay. Four ibuprofens or one naproxen? No br…

No. There is no one solution. For some things Naproxen simply doesn't work.

Do you mean, compared to drugs in the same family that work via the same mechanism?
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