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Keep Android Open

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Re: Keep Android Open

#481

Post by riedel »

arcanemachiner wrote: post #148
fermigier wrote: post #62

It is a disgrace how Google has managed this situation. To recap the storyline, as far as I understand it: last August, Google announced plans to heavily restrict sideloading. Following community pushback, they promised an "advanced flow" for power users. The media widely reported this as a walk-back, leading users to assume the open ecosystem was safe. But this promised feature hasn't appeared in any Android 16 or 1…

If this finally pushes adoption of truly open Linux phones, then this will end up being a good thing, and the greatest favor that Google could do for the open source community. Tragically, Linux phones have languished and are in an absolute state these days, but a lot of the building blocks are in place if user adoption occurs en masse. (Shout out to the lunatics who have kept this dream alive during these dark years…

Adoption would mean that orgs like the European Payment Initiative behind Wero would adopt Linux phones even other AOSP ROMs. Not seeing that. Banks and streaming platforms that require DRM are keeping most (non-activist type) users locked in.

Re: Keep Android Open

#482

Post by jesterson »

ipdashc wrote: post #317
cwillu wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It won't though, because there's a ecosystem of banking/insurance/whatever apps that have bought into the android/iphone lockdown mindsete that people will simply be locked out of. Open alternatives can grow when there is a viable means of slow growth, and cutting off the oxygen to such things is the implicit intent.

> banking/insurance/whatever apps I know banking apps are the typical example, but I've always wondered why. I use my bank's app maybe once or twice a year when I need to Zelle someone, which I only need to do when they don't have Venmo. (Unless we consider Venmo a banking app.) I only have one bank's app installed, the rest of my banks I only interact with over their website, on desktop. As for insurance, I've never…

Country dependent of course, but recently i observe steady push from banks to adopt mobile app. Some have webui neglected and glitchy, some openly announce sunsetting, some already killed web access only allowing app.

And this tendency will prevail as bank can collect way more data this way. Just a month ago one of banks that is often praised here sent me a letter saying “your IP activity doesn’t match your residence” (and i am not even installed their app, they pulled data from web ui usage. Imagine what happens when they get access to data mobile app can supply

Re: Keep Android Open

#483

Post by realusername »

surajrmal wrote: post #265
realusername wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The answer has to come from anti trust legislation. Android is too big for Google to control.

Under what law is that a legal or ethical thing to do? Why not suggest ios be taken away from Apple as well and windows from Microsoft?

I also suggest that indeed, if you can't avoid those companies it means it's time for antitrust

Re: Keep Android Open

#484

Post by lern_too_spel »

tadfisher wrote: post #368
lern_too_spel wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, blocking installation of non-notarized apps is not present in anything they released since that statement either, as far as I know.

It's already implemented in 36.1: https://developer.android.com/sdk/api_diff/36.1/changes/andr... ()

The API is implemented in 36.1, but the previously proposed notarization requirement is not enforced in any production build, so this error is never thrown. Even if they implement the scare text, this API will still be needed.

If they implement what they said they would implement after the uproar, users will be better off. Previously, if a company wanted to distribute their app on their website, any user who installed it would have to dismiss scare text. Now, they have a way to distribute apps on their website without the scare text, and people who want to distribute apps without any tracking can still do that with the scare text.

Re: Keep Android Open

#485

Post by magicalhippo »

palata wrote: post #232
cosmic_cheese wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Desktop OSes and their derivatives are woefully behind in this regard, and unfortunately the will to bring them up to par is incredibly weak. Of those in mass use (Qubes OS is neat but its user base isn’t even a rounding error), macOS probably does the most, but it’s still lagging behind iOS and what’s been implemented has come with much consternation from the technically inclined peanut gallery. I understand some am…

> We really need to get past the 90s-minded paradigm of everything having access to everything else all the time I do agree with that, and I strongly believe that the iOS and Android security model is way ahead of Desktop Linux. But what I observe is that nobody seems to care about the security model. A recurrent complaint I see against anything AOSP-based (including Android) is that people "want to be root".

> A recurrent complaint I see against anything AOSP-based (including Android) is that people "want to be root".

I want to be able to do what I want with my PC or phone. I don't want every app on my PC or phone to be able to do whatever they want, without me agreeing first.

Re: Keep Android Open

#486

Post by raw_anon_1111 »

olyjohn wrote: post #478
raw_anon_1111 wrote: post #441

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So exactly how do you think an “open phone” will keep you from being tracked when you are tracked and can be triangulated via cell phone towers?

He's referring to his activity ON THE DEVICE. We know you can't stop the location tracking from the carrier. But that doesn't mean give up on everything else.

Worrying about random app tracking you - which is a boogeyman in and of itself on iOS - and nog worrying about the government tracking you is like being concerned about a mosquito bite when you have a bullet hole.

Re: Keep Android Open

#488

Post by fwipsy »

arcanemachiner wrote: post #148
fermigier wrote: post #62

It is a disgrace how Google has managed this situation. To recap the storyline, as far as I understand it: last August, Google announced plans to heavily restrict sideloading. Following community pushback, they promised an "advanced flow" for power users. The media widely reported this as a walk-back, leading users to assume the open ecosystem was safe. But this promised feature hasn't appeared in any Android 16 or 1…

If this finally pushes adoption of truly open Linux phones, then this will end up being a good thing, and the greatest favor that Google could do for the open source community. Tragically, Linux phones have languished and are in an absolute state these days, but a lot of the building blocks are in place if user adoption occurs en masse. (Shout out to the lunatics who have kept this dream alive during these dark years…

It may push a minority of users who really care about open source to Linux phones. I expect the majority of users will grumble but cave and re-adopt mainstream Android or Apple.

Re: Keep Android Open

#489

Post by NewJazz »

torben-friis wrote: post #455
freakynit wrote: post #446

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does there seem to be a growing push to tie real-world identity to nearly everything we do online? The justification is almost always "safety". I know this trend has been developing for years, but over the past couple of years it feels like it's accelerated globally.

I think people in power have realized the impact of misinformation campaigns. And to be fair, western countries have proved to have the resilience of a wet paper bag against foreign influence and private interests. I honestly can’t imagine a good solution here. A move back to the early 2000s internet would be the ideal middle ground, which requires separating social stuff from informational stuff, and both from engag…

I think one major issue is the shortening of people's attention spans. People consume snippets of information that show a tiny fraction of the full story. They don't spend 10 minutes reading an article or watching a video, with a few exceptions. More people probably watch clips of Jon Stewart than actually watch his show. I think we ought to start addressing that issue, and see how it affects the efficacy of misinformation campaigns.

Re: Keep Android Open

#490

Post by colordrops »

JoshTriplett wrote: post #454
kelvinjps10 wrote: post #433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those things that you mentioned you can do it on the website meaning also a open computer too

> Those things that you mentioned you can do it on the website No, unfortunately some things can't be. There are venues that provide tickets exclusively via mobile applications, for instance.

Well fuck those venues. It's a small percentage. I've never run into one and I live in LA, a city with hundreds if not thousands of venues.

So you only get 98% of the world instead of 100%. That 98% is far more than the the 100% of 10 years ago. Everyone wants perfection when they've already got abundance.

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