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America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

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Re: America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

#481

Post by raw_anon_1111 »

solatic wrote: post #476
raw_anon_1111 wrote: post #461

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But also you see people asking why can’t someone making the median wage - $75K a year - max out there 401K at $23500 and their HSA at $8300, etc

There are three things you can do with your money - save it (e.g. investments), give it away (e.g. charity), or spend it (e.g. housing, vacations). Whether or not somebody's investment strategy (i.e. saving) is optimal for their income level has nothing to do with the frugality of their lifestyle (i.e. spending).

So you are saying when I first graduated from college in 1996 I should have been able to max out my 401K - then it was $10K I believe. I was making $22K.

If the median income is $70k a year, after taxes they should be able to save $23500 a year and have an HSA compatible healthcare plan and max out their HSA?

Re: America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

#482

Post by raw_anon_1111 »

scottyah wrote: post #479
raw_anon_1111 wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But do you want to take the chance that you will never have major medical expenses between the time you retire early and you are 65 and eligible for Medicare? How many of your friends are over 50?

Very few, I am just saying that you can sign up when you think the risk hits your threshold. I'm mid 30s and wish I hadn't had to pay the last 10yrs. Honestly, until you have ids it's unlikely you'll use it and even less likely that you can't sign up for it before a major operation.

Yes you should try to time a major medical issue or accident during the open enrollment window. You should also not have car insurance until you think you might have an accident

Re: America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

#483

Post by solatic »

raw_anon_1111 wrote: post #481
solatic wrote: post #476

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are three things you can do with your money - save it (e.g. investments), give it away (e.g. charity), or spend it (e.g. housing, vacations). Whether or not somebody's investment strategy (i.e. saving) is optimal for their income level has nothing to do with the frugality of their lifestyle (i.e. spending).

So you are saying when I first graduated from college in 1996 I should have been able to max out my 401K - then it was $10K I believe. I was making $22K. If the median income is $70k a year, after taxes they should be able to save $23500 a year and have an HSA compatible healthcare plan and max out their HSA?

I have no idea how you got that from my comment. How much you make, how much you save, how much you spend, and how much you give away are all independent, and neither is it a zero-sum pie (for example, sometimes investments go down in value, and sometimes the line between giving away and spending is blurry).

To answer your question directly, $70k income is independent of the cost of living in high cost of living cities (like NYC or SF) vs. low cost of living areas. If you make $70k/year in NYC, no you don't have the spare income to max out 401k/HSA. If you make $70k/year working for Walmart in Bentonville, Arkansas, then yeah, I expect that you ought to be able to max them out.

Re: America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

#484

Post by erichocean »

joe_mamba wrote: post #221
erichocean wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I meant foreign workers So did I. Being foreign, they can work at home and not pay into a system they have no part of. Problem solved.

When you move to live and work in Vienna you become part of the system since you pay income + other taxes, just like the locals, except unlike the locals, you don't get social housing. Unless of course ... your comment was just an anti immigration dogwhsitle from the start, in which case you should just said THAT instead, and not waste people's time with cumbersome allegories masquerading as arguments.

> When you move to live and work in Vienna you become part of the system

Your entire original complaint was that this doesn't happen. I agree. The difference is I don't think merely moving somewhere should give you political representation there, and the corresponding benefits you would get. You would need to gain citizenship.

"Paying taxes" has nothing to do with it. I pay taxes whenever I travel on anything I buy. I pay taxes when I export products. I don't magically get to vote or apply for social housing because of those taxes, because I'm not a citizen.

But I do have a place where I am a citizen, and if I'm upset about "my taxes" going to foreign political systems, get this, I can just choose to not pay them. No one is forcing me to travel or work in a foreign country or export products or pay taxes to people who don't represent me politically.

---

As to "anti-immigrant", my position is straightforward: citizens of Country A should not be treated as if they were citizens of Country B merely by voluntarily "paying taxes" to Country B, for goods, labor, visas, exports, or any other reason. They must actually be a citizen of a country to get the benefit of being a citizen of that country.

This is a rule that applies to every country and all people, whether an immigrant or not: you get the benefits of citizenship when you are a citizen, and not a day before.

That's pro-citizenship, not anti-immigrant. Hope that helps.

Re: America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

#485

Post by Grimburger »

sien wrote: post #379
Grimburger wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Woodlands is the busiest immigration checkpoint on the planet and it's only 1 of 2 crossings. It's fairly seamless for regulars apart from Friday afternoons when it gets clogged up by escaping Singaporeans keen for the weekend and the quality/value offered by their poorer neighbour. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woodlands_Checkpoint

Fascinating. It appears to be the world's second busiest checkpoint now though if you count the Macau to China checkpoint. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Border_checkpoint#Busiest_chec...

I stand corrected, interesting, I assume its the same and for work?

Re: America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

#486

Post by eru »

raw_anon_1111 wrote: post #464
mathgladiator wrote: post #446

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That data alone invalidates any idea of insurance being sustainable, it's a sinking ship. I, on the other hand, only eat beef, butter, bacon, and eggs and everything is getting better. BUT, I may be in a cult, but this cult has benefits.

No insurance is viable because the risk pool includes people of all ages.

Why even use pools? Ask your actuary about risks.

Re: America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

#487

Post by mathgladiator »

snayan wrote: post #474
mathgladiator wrote: post #448

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ego is truly wild. I had one last bastion of ego that echoes a bit. It was my ability to code the machine. Im that guy that really loves to code. It fills me with joy in ways that I cant describe. It was the only status I really had... until AI. AI has freed me. I am free to fully enjoy life as a nut case. Its fantastic as im living a second childhood right now.

Beautiful man, love it. Enjoy :) Yeah, I have a pet theory that I give about a 0.01% chance of coming to fruition... Next couple decades, AI, etc is going to force humanity to confront it's sense of self and priorities and wake up. A man can dream lol.

I think it will come sooner than that especially if AI doubles in capability every 4-5 months.

Re: America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

#488

Post by NoLinkToMe »

Muromec wrote: post #459
NoLinkToMe wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's partially true. 37% contribution of pay, earmarked for personal welfare expenses (housing/healthcare/retirement), basically covers 60% of a typical state budget. But these funds aren't pooled like taxes. Typically the top 25% pay something like 80% of the income taxes. And the recipient of that tax revenue is typically the bottom 50% who get means-tested welfare benefits. In the Singaporean model it seems that…

That does not count the missing opportunity cost, which is the actual tax from the savings

No because in other similar countries like the example I gave of mine, that money is taxed and goes to another person. There is no opportunity cost.

In Singapore it's 'taxed' and earmarked to you, and then generates a very modest ROI. Yes there is an opportunity cost versus a place like Dubai that has 0% tax. But not compared to a similar welfare state that puts a 40% tax and you lose that money forever.

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