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Coding agents have replaced every framework I used

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Re: Coding agents have replaced every framework I used

#481

Post by Krei-se »

scotty79 wrote: post #480
bodge5000 wrote: post #447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get its necessary for investment, but I'd be a lot happier with these tools if we didn't keep making these wild claims, because I'm certainly not seeing 10x the output. When I ask for examples, 90% its claude code (not a beacon of good software anyway but if nearly everyone is pointing to one example it tells you thats the best you can probably expect) and 10% weekend projects, which are cool, but not 10x cool. Opu…

Have you seen moltbook? One dude coded reddit clone for bots in less the a week. How is it not at least 10x of what was achievable in pre-ai world? Granted he left the db open to public, but some meat powered startups did exactly the same few years ago.

Because its a clone.

Re: Coding agents have replaced every framework I used

#482

Post by rogerthis »

eqvinox wrote: post #212

> What’s gone is the tearing, exhausting manual labour of typing every single line of code. Do I live in a different engineering world? Because that's so much not the exhausting labour part of my work, it's not even the same universe. The exhausting manual labour for me is interacting with others in the project, aligning goals and distributing work, reviewing, testing, even coming up with test concepts, and… actually…

Weird thing is that it can ease things like that too.

Re: Coding agents have replaced every framework I used

#483

Post by ggregoire »

paulhebert wrote: post #298
bthornbury wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does there seem to be such a divide in opinions on AI in coding? Meanwhile those who "get it" have been improving their productivity for literally years now.

I think there are a number of elements: - What you are working on. AI is better at solving already solved problems with lots of examples. - How fast/skilled you were before. If you were slow before then you got a bigger speed up. If AI can solve problems you can’t you unlock new abilities - How much quality is prioritized. You can write quality, bug free code with AI but it takes longer and you get less of a boost. -…

> How much you like coding. If you like coding then using AI is less fun.

I'm surprised this is never brought up here on "Hacker" News. I've been reading HN for 14 years and all this time I thought people here enjoyed programming. Turns out the majority hates it apparently.

Re: Coding agents have replaced every framework I used

#484

Post by panny »

mark242 wrote: post #215
rglover wrote: post #139

A significant number of developers and businesses are going to have an absolutely brutal rude awakening in the not too distant future. You can build things this way, and they may work for a time, but you don't know what you don't know (and experience teaches you that you only find most stuff by building/struggling; not sipping a soda while the AI blurts out potentially secure/stable code). The hubris around AI is goi…

I would argue that it's going to be the opposite. At re:Invent, one of the popular sessions was in creating a trio of SRE agents, one of which did nothing but read logs and report errors, one of which did analysis of the errors and triaged and proposed fixes, and one to do the work and submit PRs to your repo. Then, as part of the session, you would artificially introduce a bug into the system, then run into the bug…

That doesn't change the fact that the submission is basically repeating the LISP curse. Best case scenario: you end up with a one-off framework and only you know how it works. The post you're replying to points out why this is a bad idea.

It doesn't matter if you don't use 90% of a framework as the submission bemoans. When everyone uses an identical API, but in different situations, you find lots of different problems that way. Your framework, and its users become a sort of BORG. When one of the framework users discovers a problem, it's fixed and propagated out before it can even be a problem for the rest of the BORG.

That's not true in your LISP curse, one off custom bespoke framework. You will repeat all the problems that all the other custom bespoke frameworks encountered. When they fixed their problem, they didn't fix it for you. You will find those problems over and over again. This is why free software dominates over proprietary software. The biggest problem in software is not writing the software, it's maintaining it. Free software shares the maintenance burden, so everyone can benefit. You bear the whole maintenance burden with your custom, one off vibe coded solutions.

Re: Coding agents have replaced every framework I used

#485

Post by lstodd »

GeoAtreides wrote: post #293
GoatInGrey wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be blunt, I think it's a form of mania that drives someone to reject human-written code in favor of LLM-generated code. Every time I read writing from this perspective that exceeds a paragraph, I quickly realize the article itself was written by an LLM. When they automate this much writing, it makes me wonder how much of their own reading they automate away too. The below captures this perfectly. The author is try…

> it's a form of mania Correct. The history is rife with examples of manias taking hold of societies, I recommend "Memoirs of Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds" by Charles Mackay[1], it's an absolutely fascinating book. [1] https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/24518

> absolutely fascinating book

Indeed. Thank you for posting this link.

Re: Coding agents have replaced every framework I used

#486

Post by paulhebert »

ggregoire wrote: post #483
paulhebert wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there are a number of elements: - What you are working on. AI is better at solving already solved problems with lots of examples. - How fast/skilled you were before. If you were slow before then you got a bigger speed up. If AI can solve problems you can’t you unlock new abilities - How much quality is prioritized. You can write quality, bug free code with AI but it takes longer and you get less of a boost. -…

> How much you like coding. If you like coding then using AI is less fun. I'm surprised this is never brought up here on "Hacker" News. I've been reading HN for 14 years and all this time I thought people here enjoyed programming. Turns out the majority hates it apparently.

Yeah, it’s strange to me. One of the reasons I chose this career is because I enjoy programming.

I don’t get the same satisfaction when using AI coding tools. I feel like I’m the manager of a faceless team of mediocre employees

Re: Coding agents have replaced every framework I used

#488

Post by leptons »

seabrookmx wrote: post #321
MrDarcy wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are the people who have the design sense of someone like Rob Pike but lack his coding skill. These people are now 100x more capable than they were previously.

Citation needed. For both the existence of said people (how do you develop said design sense without a ton of coding experience?) and that they are 100x more productive.

If you produced 1 line of code per hour before "AI" because you suck, and now produce 100 lines of code per hour with AI, you are now a 100x programmer.

I'm joking of course, but that's probably how some people see it.

Re: Coding agents have replaced every framework I used

#489

Post by leptons »

aogaili wrote: post #326
rglover wrote: post #139

A significant number of developers and businesses are going to have an absolutely brutal rude awakening in the not too distant future. You can build things this way, and they may work for a time, but you don't know what you don't know (and experience teaches you that you only find most stuff by building/struggling; not sipping a soda while the AI blurts out potentially secure/stable code). The hubris around AI is goi…

What's makes you so sure of your statement? I have be building systems for 20 years and I think the author is right.

I've been building systems for 40 years, and I think... you know what, nevermind, it doesn't really matter what either of us thinks.

Re: Coding agents have replaced every framework I used

#490

Post by bodge5000 »

scotty79 wrote: post #480
bodge5000 wrote: post #447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get its necessary for investment, but I'd be a lot happier with these tools if we didn't keep making these wild claims, because I'm certainly not seeing 10x the output. When I ask for examples, 90% its claude code (not a beacon of good software anyway but if nearly everyone is pointing to one example it tells you thats the best you can probably expect) and 10% weekend projects, which are cool, but not 10x cool. Opu…

Have you seen moltbook? One dude coded reddit clone for bots in less the a week. How is it not at least 10x of what was achievable in pre-ai world? Granted he left the db open to public, but some meat powered startups did exactly the same few years ago.

I mean as has already been pointed out the fact that its a clone is a big reason why, but then I also think I could probably churn out a simple clone of reddit in less than a week. We've been through this before with twitter, the value isnt the tech (which is relatively straightforward), its the userbase. Of course Reddit has some more advanced features which would be more difficult, but I think the public db probably tells you that wasn't much of a concern to Moltbook either, so yeh, I reckon I could do that.
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