Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars • Hacker News Board

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#481

Post by bartread » Tue, Jan 20, 2026, 1:32 PM UTC

melenaboija wrote: post #166

bnchrch wrote: post #2

While the headline is interesting. I think the table at the end of the article is more so. - Worldwide sales -10% YoY - China sales -26% YoY And when you cross compare Porsche saying they sold more EV powertrains than their gas equivalents against China's new found foothold as the market leader in consumer electric cars (BYD, NIO, Xiaomi, etc...) Then I think you see an early indication not just of electric car domin…

> Then I think you see an early indication not just of electric car dominance, but of the (very potential) rise of China as the premier automotive super power. It’s done man. Americans are stuck in ICE engines because they’ve been told they’re “car enthusiasts” while the Chinese have been developing EV technology for years. Meanwhile, European makers are stuck not knowing what to do, make Americans happy or compete w…

I get the impression that what the Chinese want out of a car is different and, realistically, a bit more aligned with the trajectory of human progress as well.

I remember the (UK) Top Gear episode, which I'd guess must be at least 15 years old now, where they were talking about Chinese car brands, like Roewe, and they were ripping on them for being a bit crap in various ways (performance, not that fun to drive, etc.), but they also highlighted that what's important to Chinese car buyers is equipment level and having the latest tech[0] so, even though the cars at the time weren't the best, they were packed with gadgets and creature comfort.

Add 15 years of rapid progress onto that and it's not surprising that China is dominating in the EV space, because it aligns so well with what Chinese buyers might be looking for in a vehicle.

[0] And having seen what traffic jams in Chinese cities can look like it entirely makes sense to optimise for comfort and engagement whilst sitting still or in stop go traffic, than for driving experience when you're never really going to experience the handling anyway.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#482

Post by nicoburns » Tue, Jan 20, 2026, 1:33 PM UTC

vee-kay wrote: post #478

jansper39 wrote: post #422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Modern cars are far more reliable than old 'analogue' cars - primarily because of the integrated electronics. ECUs can detect when engines are running rich or lean, knocking or 100 other edge cases and adjust accordingly. Switch to an EV and it's even simpler, you can get away with a motor, battery, BMS and inverter and you can get just about any soapbox to move.

When your ICE vehicle breaks down on the highway, you can get it towed and repaired at any half-decent car mechanic. If you don't like his cost quote or his service/repairs, you can get your car taken elsewhere (usually the mechanic can get it running in a short while, unless it is a major breakage problem) for a second opinion or service/repairs. When your EV breaks down, you won't even bother to get it towed, becau…

> When your EV breaks down, you won't even bother to get it towed, because the only ones who can repair are the (very expensive) showroom of the car manufacturer you bought it from, or their authorized (and very expensive) service center

That's true, but it is has more to do with parasitic capitalism than EV technology, and could (and hopefully will）be solved with regulation. My understanding is that there is already significant regulation around ICE car parts which is the main reason why the situation there is better.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#483

Post by bwv848 » Tue, Jan 20, 2026, 1:35 PM UTC

joe_mamba wrote: post #256

nostromo wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Until very recently, tariffs on American cars sold in China were much higher than vice-versa. The new US tariffs were an attempt to even the playing field. I think most people would agree that no tariffs would be good, but China is more protectionist than any other major economy, including recent changes in US policy.

> but China is more protectionist than any other major economy, including recent changes in US policy. Not true. China let Tesla set up shop in the backyard of their domestic EV industry, WITHOUT the mandatory by law 51% Chinese ownership, precisely so Tesla would light a fire under the asses of domestic players, forcing them to compete better with what was at the time, the pinnacle EV brand. China is no longer beati…

> so Tesla would light a fire under the asses of domestic players, forcing them to compete better with what was at the time, the pinnacle EV brand.

More like having Tesla to bootstrap the upstream suppliers so local brands can leverage them.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#484

Post by willvarfar » Tue, Jan 20, 2026, 1:36 PM UTC

nickserv wrote: post #439

willvarfar wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And what about all those huge pending orders for F35 in ... Denmark and Canada? Etc.

Denmark ordered more in October. Canada talks a lot, but so far has done nothing concrete about reducing their order. You would think they would urgently cancel and get Gripens and/or Rafales. Wonder what's going on behind the scenes.

Having a pending order that can be cancelled is negotiation leverage?

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#485

Post by KellyCriterion » Tue, Jan 20, 2026, 1:37 PM UTC

putting the rating together that way is some type of "automotive market Garry Mandering", Id say?

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#486

Post by tirant » Tue, Jan 20, 2026, 1:38 PM UTC

speeder wrote: post #346

melenaboija wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Then I think you see an early indication not just of electric car dominance, but of the (very potential) rise of China as the premier automotive super power. It’s done man. Americans are stuck in ICE engines because they’ve been told they’re “car enthusiasts” while the Chinese have been developing EV technology for years. Meanwhile, European makers are stuck not knowing what to do, make Americans happy or compete w…

I am in Portugal right now. You know something we don’t have often here? Garages. For example in my neighborhood most cars are parallel parked, people are living in centuries old houses converted into high density condos, there are no garages. So what is more practical, charging your car overnight without an electric plug or going to the gas station for a few minutes?

With batteries reaching 800-1000km per charge and most people doing around 30km a day of driving (way less for people living in dense areas), you basically only need to charge your car once every two weeks.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#487

Post by woooooo » Tue, Jan 20, 2026, 1:40 PM UTC

fooker wrote: post #360

blackoil wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One War. In 1962, i.e. 64 years ago. In meanwhile, US supported genocidal regime of Pakistan killing Hindus and many more in what is now Bangladesh. Sent billions more to Pakistan which are then used to fund terrorist activities in India. and some more recently under Covfefe.

Here's the other one https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nathu_La_and_Cho_La_clashes

"The Defence Ministry of India reported: 88 killed and 163 wounded on the Indian side, while 340 killed and 450 wounded on the Chinese side, during the two incidents.[6][7]

According to Chinese claims, the number of soldiers killed was 32 on the Chinese side and 65 on the Indian side in Nathu La incident; and 36 Indian soldiers and an 'unknown' number of Chinese were killed in the Cho La incident.[8] "

War might be overstating it a bit, "incident" might be more appropriate, but we can round up in the spirit of comity.

So adding it all up, the Chinese had 1-2 small foreign wars per decade in the 50s-70s, zero since 1979. It still doesn't justify the phrasing "threatening all their neighbors" in 2025, aside from Taiwan specifically.

In the case of the line of control with India, it's reached the point where they're having ritualized fistfights at high altitude for pride, that's just comical. It's not threatening.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#488

Post by CGMthrowaway » Tue, Jan 20, 2026, 1:45 PM UTC

nielsbot wrote: post #332

CGMthrowaway wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't it a lot easier just to sell people hybrids instead?

Yeah but don't we need to stop burning fossil fuels?

No? I haven't seen a "peak oil" article or prediction in at least ten years. It would be GREAT to reduce our dependence, to make them cleaner, to make them more efficient, and to increase the use of renewables. But who is saying we have to "stop" oil and gas?

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#489

Post by korhojoa » Tue, Jan 20, 2026, 1:45 PM UTC

Esophagus4 wrote: post #460

wilg wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, a hybrid doesn't solve the problem. We don't need to reduce greenhouse gas emissions, we need to zero them out. You can't do that if you sometimes burn gas.

You know car emissions are like 15% total greenhouse gas emissions in the US right? And half that worldwide. This is just the most visible source for a bunch of people who have made their conclusion unencumbered by the data. The emissions from powering and heating your house are several times what your car emissions are. So go solve that one and leave my Corolla alone.

That is some whataboutism.

You do realize that net zero homes are buildable? Even in surprisingly challenging climates.

There are so many ways to make better use of the energy we have available than to waste a bunch of it to pollute the air.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#490

Post by bluedino » Tue, Jan 20, 2026, 1:46 PM UTC

costcopizza wrote: post #463

melenaboija wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Then I think you see an early indication not just of electric car dominance, but of the (very potential) rise of China as the premier automotive super power. It’s done man. Americans are stuck in ICE engines because they’ve been told they’re “car enthusiasts” while the Chinese have been developing EV technology for years. Meanwhile, European makers are stuck not knowing what to do, make Americans happy or compete w…

I can 100% confidently say the average US buyer is not an auto enthusiast. Cars are appliances to the vast majority of people here. There are multiple other factors for the relatively low adoption of EVs compared to China.

> I can 100% confidently say the average US buyer is not an auto enthusiast. Cars are appliances to the vast majority of people here.

Only like 1-2% of new cars are manual transmission here. A lot of the enthusiast market complains that everything is an automatic these days, even high end sports cars.