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Statement by Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, the Netherlands,Norway,Sweden,UK

presidentti.fi

481–490 of 604 posts

Re: Statement by Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, the Netherlands,Norway,Sweden,UK

#481

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Those who died weren't still there after the war. Those of them who didn't have any children left behind were effectively genetically exterminated - ending millions of years of their genetic heritage. And cultural heritage. It was the greatest disasters in the history of Europe, and the effects are still deeply felt. The world wars were the greatest idiocy in the history of humanity.

Sure, it was a total disaster. But Europe is still here, European people are still here.

Re: Statement by Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, the Netherlands,Norway,Sweden,UK

#482

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A mass selloff of US bonds will mean that the US can’t sell any more - because the market is suddenly flooded with bonds at a ‘discount’. This means that the US can’t take on any more debt (borrow money) Why would you pay the US $10 when you can get the same thing from France for $8? Or the US then has to issue bonds with massively inflated returns - i.e. pay a much higher interest rate.

On the other hand, China sold off most of theirs and nobody even noticed. I think you're exaggerating both how much EU holds and the potential effects of them selling it.

Deutsche Bank made a statement recently that Europe holds about double what the rest of the world does combined in US bonds and equity.

Re: Statement by Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, the Netherlands,Norway,Sweden,UK

#483
post #413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't seem to discuss Trump's "offer". Voting independence from Denmark is different from being given the option to join the United States. As Chomsky would say "whenever there are multiple pictures, the darkest one tends to be closer to the truth". What if natural resources would be more expensive (for both US and EU) to buy if Greenland were independent, than if it were still half-colony of Denmark. Then EU an…

unsurprising that Chomsky has a reverse Occam's Razor that assumes the worst in any (western) action

his comment was not specific to Western nations, it would apply equally well to asian, african, south american, russian,northern, southern, ... nations, but you are right, he wouldn't treat Western nations with an exception, and that always makes the relevant population feel addressed, and this subjectively feels different, or being picked on with precision, but its just when a population feels addressed.

Re: Statement by Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, the Netherlands,Norway,Sweden,UK

#484
post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Picking better next time won't be enough unless a lot of work is done to put in place safeguards to make it impossible for a future government to act the same way.

That or decades of picking better. Regardless, we are looking at a long time before the world doesn't look at our government in disgust (rightfully).

Indeed, but it might be many decades - once this lesson is first learned, it will take a long time to unlearn because it tends to become self-reinforcing.

To give an illustration of how long institutional memory over things like this can be:

As of when I went to primary school in Norway in the 1980's, we were still taught at length about the British blockade of Norway during the Napoleonic wars due to Denmark-Norway's entry into the war on Napoleons side and its impact on Norway (an enduring memory for many Norwegian school-children is having to learn the Norwegian epic poem "Terje Vigen" about a man evading the blockade).

Norwegian agricultural policy to this day has had a costly cross-party support for subsidies intended to provide at least a minimum of food idependence as a consequence of learning the hard way first during the Napoleonic wars with a reinforcement (though less serious) during WW2 of how important it can be.

A large part of the Norwegian negotiations for EEA entry, and Norways rejection of EU membership was centered around agricultural policy in part because of this history.

The importance of regional development and keeping agriculture alive even in regions that are really not suited to it is "baked in" to Norwegian politics in part because the subsidies means that on top of those who are about the food idependence a lot of people are financially benefiting from the continuation of those policies, or have lived shaped by it (e.g. local communities that would likely not exist if the farms had not been financially viable thanks to subsidies), so structures have been created around it that have a life of their own.

Conversely, a lot of support for the US in Europe rests on institutional memory of the Marshall Plan, with most of the generations with first hand experience of the impact now dead.

Create a replacement memory of the US becoming a hostile force, and that can easily embed itself for the same 3+ generations after the situation itself has been resolved.

Re: Statement by Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, the Netherlands,Norway,Sweden,UK

#485

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those who died weren't still there after the war. Those of them who didn't have any children left behind were effectively genetically exterminated - ending millions of years of their genetic heritage. And cultural heritage. It was the greatest disasters in the history of Europe, and the effects are still deeply felt. The world wars were the greatest idiocy in the history of humanity.

Sure, it was a total disaster. But Europe is still here, European people are still here.

The European land mass is of course there. The European people(s) have been significantly altered from what they were and what they would have been if it wasn't for those wars.

Re: Statement by Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, the Netherlands,Norway,Sweden,UK

#486

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

“Optics” is the wrong frame: this is about legitimacy and consent. A referendum demanded by outsiders under pressure is just coercion with a procedural costume. Imagine Cuba proposing a referendum on Puerto Rico joining Cuba and calling it “bad optics” if people won’t play along, the absurdity is the premise, not the lack of voting.

Maybe that's the answer - the USA needs to hold a referendum on becoming a British colony again. It's 250 years since they declared independence, maybe they've changed their mind on having a king? (/s)

Re: Statement by Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, the Netherlands,Norway,Sweden,UK

#487
post #437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trump's passing and his admin getting tossed won't erase the memory that a good third of America was always happy with him and wanted what he actually did. America is now branded with MAGA in a way that will take generations to fade.

At this point, I'd say terms rather than generations. I mean, I'm old enough to remember people saying "Never Forget" about 9/11, but it's barely in any discourse at this point, and that was a single generation ago and had two major wars a bunch of PoW scandals, war crime scandals that led to Manning, and domestic surveillance that led to Snowden. And yet, despite all that, I've only heard 9/11 mentioned exactly once…

You are talking about the US, the others do not.

Re: Statement by Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, the Netherlands,Norway,Sweden,UK

#488

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Right, because an agency supposedly meant for "immigration enforcement" being sent to cities of the President's opponents so they can crackdown on protests and harass citizens is different... how? Is being persecuted for your religion worse than being persecuted for your political beliefs? There is a secret police force actively patrolling the streets, going door-to-door asking for papers, shooting American citizens…

[flagged]

Re: Statement by Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, the Netherlands,Norway,Sweden,UK

#489
post #423

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of what happens to us is by chance, not by choice. And when it's by choice, its often not our own choice.

This is what they want you to believe. You are useful and convenient when you are malleable (to someone's else agenda aka "their choice"). Ideally, you should not practice any discernment at all, raise no questions, silence any suspicions. As if it's all by sheer coincidence and predefined by external forces ("chance"). Straight out of "Manipulators' Handbook 101".

You're the one not raising questions about this nonsensical maxim. It seems neat to you so you accept it as truth uncritically.

Re: Statement by Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, the Netherlands,Norway,Sweden,UK

#490
post #425
post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seemingly? Do you have any indication that this is a consistent pattern in the world outside of imagination?

Rich kids with inherited wealth are always perfectly fine and reasonable people?

They overwhelmingly do better than their poorer peers, yes. Anectdote vs statistics.
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