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Photos capture the breathtaking scale of China's wind and solar buildout

e360.yale.edu

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Re: Photos capture the breathtaking scale of China's wind and solar buildout

#481

Post by ChoGGi »

mrpopo wrote: post #57
appointment wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That’s not to exclude the harsh reality of mining for the minerals required to build these, nor the land use concerns. This is Big Oil propaganda. The impact from this is massively less than the horrific damage caused by every part of the fossil fuel industry.

Yep. It's not just oil rigs in the desert. Chevron in Ecuador destroyed the Amazonian rainforest. Oil pipelines and open pit mines destroying Canadian primordial forests. Probably tons of untold stories.

> open pit mines destroying Canadian primordial forest

And our lovely tailings: Syncrude Tailings Dam

Re: Photos capture the breathtaking scale of China's wind and solar buildout

#482

Post by dalyons »

noosphr wrote: post #463
dalyons wrote: post #458

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, I’m just pointing out that 24% share of power being nuke by 2060 is never going to happen now. Renewables got too cheap, and it’s not “on target”

If I have zero wives yesterday and one today, by next week I will need a new house for all my new wives. Like I said in the original post: >Even the people who understand the scale don't understand the purpose. >The Chinese grid isn't renewable or non-renewable. It's built to keep the lights on for anything short of a thousand year catastrophe. Only capitalists are so penny wise and pound foolish to bet their civiliz…

I agree with you, china is building risk mitigation in a way that no one else is, and it will serve them well. However, in this thread I’m solely replying to your comment on the “24% nuke by 2060” plan. That particular plan is not going to happen any more, nuclear is not competitive enough, even for china.

Re: Photos capture the breathtaking scale of China's wind and solar buildout

#483

Post by arbitrary_name »

peyton wrote: post #398
tim-tday wrote: post #384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as I can tell they hated Obama not for what he did, said or believed. Those things were quite middle of the road. They hated him for what he was.

Didn’t help that he showed up at his first couple Senate meetings gloating about winning the election. And tried to set working hours for his former colleagues. Among other things.

Gloating? Oh no! We should impeach him!

Re: Photos capture the breathtaking scale of China's wind and solar buildout

#484

Post by maxglute »

avsteele wrote: post #371
maxglute wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>it was agreed that they would all aim to reduce emissions No, it was agreed during Kyoto that developed nations would reduce emissions, and developing nations (aka PRC, India) would not. Developing nations could keeping scaling fossil to industrialize until Paris where all countries had to submit climate plan (again not explicitly to reduce), and PRC's was to peak emissions by 2030s, which they're on trend to do ear…

Lots of this is right, but > and PRC's was to peak emissions by 2030s This appears to be wrong. Peak is supposed to be before 2030. They will not hit it. https://climateactiontracker.org/countries/china/targets/

>The 14th Five-Year Plan (FYP) aims to cut energy intensity by 13.5% and emissions intensity by 18% by 2025 from 2020 levels (Xinhua News Agency, 2021) . As of November 2025, China is unlikely to achieve the targets, as emissions intensity is projected to decline by only 16–17.

1% off according to dashboard analysis for 2025 5 year plan target. There's study from Q4 that PRC emissions has been stalled/trending, i.e. peaked for past 18months. Functionally they've peaked emissions before 2030 NDC commitment.

https://e360.yale.edu/digest/china-emissions-decline

Re: Photos capture the breathtaking scale of China's wind and solar buildout

#485

Post by vscode-rest »

protocolture wrote: post #480
dalyons wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And thank god they have this incentive alignment! Chinas greentech buildout and export is the only thing with a chance of getting us out of this climate mess. Imagine how fucked we’d be if they had their own oil.

>And thank god they have this incentive alignment! Chinas greentech buildout and export is the only thing with a chance of getting us out of this climate mess. Imagine how fucked we’d be if they had their own oil. IIRC that list of companies that polluted the most on the planet, 1 and 2 were Chinese state owned entities. China Coal and China Petroleum from memory. OFC they are dwarfed IIRC by the US Military.

[dead]

Re: Photos capture the breathtaking scale of China's wind and solar buildout

#486

Post by ta20240528 »

specialist wrote: post #275
jbl0ndie wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only there is no forever when you're talking about a finite resource, like fossil fuels.

They're talking about our nascent circular economy. Recycling now recovers >95% of raw minerals (and will continue to improve). The learning curves for battery and solar tech will more than make up the for the shortfall. Meaning at some point in the near future (2050 IIRC), humanity will have mined all the lithium it'll ever need. Also, in the same time frame, it'll be economical to mine our garbage dumps. Further re…

"Recycling now recovers >95% of raw minerals"

Not of plastic - recycling rates are decreasing. This is largely due to the excess ethane begin produced as a by-product of US fracking.

The ethane is converted to ethylene, then to polyethylene as a cost below that of collecting, cleaning, and processing used plastic.

Re: Photos capture the breathtaking scale of China's wind and solar buildout

#487

Post by dalyons »

protocolture wrote: post #480
dalyons wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And thank god they have this incentive alignment! Chinas greentech buildout and export is the only thing with a chance of getting us out of this climate mess. Imagine how fucked we’d be if they had their own oil.

>And thank god they have this incentive alignment! Chinas greentech buildout and export is the only thing with a chance of getting us out of this climate mess. Imagine how fucked we’d be if they had their own oil. IIRC that list of companies that polluted the most on the planet, 1 and 2 were Chinese state owned entities. China Coal and China Petroleum from memory. OFC they are dwarfed IIRC by the US Military.

sure. But today china is the #1 producer of solar panels (80% of global production capacity), #1 producer of wind turbines (40%), #1 producer of batteries (~80%), #1 producer of EVs (75%).

Noone has done more for global clean energy, and its not even close. Sure they polluted a lot up until now, but honesty who cares about the past, times change fast.

Re: Photos capture the breathtaking scale of China's wind and solar buildout

#489

Post by ta20240528 »

fakedang wrote: post #379
michaelteter wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The current US “leadership” is working as hard as it can to prevent any progress and to even dismantle some of the gains we have made. Meanwhile, China has made the obvious realization that independence from oil and gas is economically, geopolitically, and environmentally beneficial.

China's betting on renewables while Republicans are betting on nuclear fusion and gutting the NRC.

Hardly. China is also betting on nuclear fission and nuclear fusion:

1. Fission: TMSR-LF1 (a thorium breeder, molten salt research reactor)

Based on US work in 1960s and independent Chinese Sinap work in 1970s. They recently published that they had detected Protactiunium in the salt - a new milestone.

2. Fusion: EAST tokomak

https://www.livescience.com/planet-earth/nuclear-energy/chin...

We would all be better off if the US and China just collaborated.

Re: Photos capture the breathtaking scale of China's wind and solar buildout

#490

Post by spiderfarmer »

api wrote: post #155
spiderfarmer wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU is moving towards 50% sustainable with lots of countries that at 60-75%, while the USA is at 25%. Europe is also at least a decade ahead. And since renewable + batteries is now cheaper than nuclear, we should spend our money and time wisely.

If they're cheaper than nuclear, why is the AI crowd looking to nuclear for data centers? I can think of two possible reasons: (1) it's America, and it's very hard to build anything, and nuclear is smaller and fits on site, and (2) we have an administration openly hostile to solar and wind energy for political "vibes" reasons. Vibes are dumb. I think looking back this is going to be seen as an age of people deciding…

You mean VC companies creating their own customers to justify their investments again?
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