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Sugar industry influenced researchers and blamed fat for CVD (2016)

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Re: Sugar industry influenced researchers and blamed fat for CVD (2016)

#481

Post by overgard »

prmph wrote: post #330
overgard wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it really that exhausting though? I've been on a zero-carb diet for two months (other than thanksgiving or christmas), and it really hasn't been hard at all. If I eat at a restaurant there's some things I can't avoid (seed oils), but otherwise it's not too hard to look at a menu and see things I can eat. The only hard part is to be optimally healthy I need to cook for myself, but that's always been true. In a lot…

Yet you are unavoidably eating micro-plastics too, which have been linked to adverse CV events. Also: - If you are eating more fish (as opposed to eating meat), you are likely consuming more mercury. - If you are eating more fresh veggies you are probably ingesting more pesticides. - If you are easting dark chocolate for its health benefits, you are also ingesting cadmium and other heavy metals. So all the above shou…

Your post sounds like "bad things can happen so why bother". Having a good diet isn't "slavish devotion", it's more like "don't eat something obviously terrible"

Re: Sugar industry influenced researchers and blamed fat for CVD (2016)

#482

Post by fc417fc802 »

overgard wrote: post #480
fc417fc802 wrote: post #440

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GP was talking specifically about calories, not other nutrients. My impression is when a vegetable provides significant calorie content it tends to be in the form of carbohydrates. You have to get your calories (ie raw energy) from somewhere. If you limit saturated fat to 10% then what's left for the other 90% is (roughly speaking) unsaturated fat, simple sugars, carbohydrates (ie complex sugars), and protein. In ter…

People are on ketogenic diets for years and even decades with no adverse affects. There's nothing wrong with getting energy from other sources, your body can manage it fine.

Ketogenic diets are high fat. I suggested that a diet where the bulk of your calories comes from protein (not lipids, carbohydrates, or simple sugars) was probably not great for your health.

Your body can certainly "manage" on a high protein low fat low carb diet but I don't understand it to be good for you.

Re: Sugar industry influenced researchers and blamed fat for CVD (2016)

#483

Post by DetectDefect »

bagels wrote: post #454
platevoltage wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely. The human body was not meant to process the milk of other animals.

What was it meant to process? Why have some of us evolved tolerance for lactose?

Fruits, roots and vegetables. A tolerance for lactose is not an indication of optimal human food.

Re: Sugar industry influenced researchers and blamed fat for CVD (2016)

#484

Post by aldarion »

tsimionescu wrote: post #237
aldarion wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"generally people tend to think that macronutrients work independently of each other" Well, that is obviously the wrong idea. Even basic logic speaks against it: people lose weight on keto diet, people lose weight on vegan diet... so neither protein, fat nor carbs can be causing obesity. But what do foods that we know are obesogenic have in common? 1) They are highly processed and/or 2) they combine fats and carbs in…

People lose weight, temporarily, on all sorts of diets, restricted or not. It is the nature of specific diets that they tend to reduce appetite, and simply following a diet tends to reduce snacking - by virtue of selection bias, mostly (that is, people who are successfully following a diet are by definition people who aren't overeating). Very traditional diets also tended to include lots of foods that are both highly…

I haven't found any paleo dieter that promotes eating solely or even primarily raw foods. That idea seems to be more common in carnivore and vegan communities.

Traditional diets however are still diets that came after the advent of agriculture.

Re: Sugar industry influenced researchers and blamed fat for CVD (2016)

#485

Post by bregma »

yoz-y wrote: post #365
bluGill wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't say lard is always better. Different cooking styles demand different things. Though my grandpa used lard on his bread in the great depression because they couldn't afford butter.

As a kid I had both lard and butter on bread. Bras with lard and onions is amazing. But also that’s roughly the only combination of that works. Butter is way more versatile.

Perhaps this is a different usage of the word "bra" than I am used to but it sounds uncomfortable.

Re: Sugar industry influenced researchers and blamed fat for CVD (2016)

#486

Post by aldarion »

majkinetor wrote: post #270
aldarion wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"generally people tend to think that macronutrients work independently of each other" Well, that is obviously the wrong idea. Even basic logic speaks against it: people lose weight on keto diet, people lose weight on vegan diet... so neither protein, fat nor carbs can be causing obesity. But what do foods that we know are obesogenic have in common? 1) They are highly processed and/or 2) they combine fats and carbs in…

That is not correct. People lose fat on calorie restricted diet. How will you get to it, either by counting them or by improving metabolism or by changing insulin levels, is a different thing. Vegan or keto diet can both be calorie restricted, as much as any macronutrient mixture. However, it doesn't mean its sustainable. If you are hungry all the time, you can stay on the diet for some time, but not forever. Since i…

Thing about the keto diet is that "hungry all the time" simply... doesn't happen. In fact, bigger problem for keto dieters tends to be being satiated all the time and consequently undereating.

"Hungry all the time" is actually vegan thing, but plants have so few calories and pass through so quickly that vegans end up being skinny despite eating literally all the time.

Re: Sugar industry influenced researchers and blamed fat for CVD (2016)

#487

Post by aldarion »

rzmmm wrote: post #383
aldarion wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"generally people tend to think that macronutrients work independently of each other" Well, that is obviously the wrong idea. Even basic logic speaks against it: people lose weight on keto diet, people lose weight on vegan diet... so neither protein, fat nor carbs can be causing obesity. But what do foods that we know are obesogenic have in common? 1) They are highly processed and/or 2) they combine fats and carbs in…

I'm skeptical that paleo diet would be healthy for long term. There are studies where they find atherosclerosis in pre-industrial hunter-gatherer remains. It's called HORUS study.

From what I've managed to find in the newest research, it apppears that diet does not appear to have any impact on atherosclerosis itself. But, as they say, more data needed.

Re: Sugar industry influenced researchers and blamed fat for CVD (2016)

#488

Post by [deleted] »

devilsdata wrote: post #403
nomel wrote: post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there is a strong correlation between saturated fat consumption and CVD Reference? Many of the old studies have been proven flawed and, no surprise, corrupt [1]. Recent studies seem to suggest that it's only linked for some people. Disclaimer: I am nearly uneducated with this topic, but find it increasingly hard to trust anything nutrition related, where big money is involved. [1] https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/artic…

While I don't have studies on hand, I recommend watching `Viva Longevity!` on YouTube. He makes a case for the Ancel Keys studies, and why saturated fat is bad and why fiber is good. It's been nearly a year or two since I've looked into it, but basically there is a lot of money in marketing for the beef and dairy industries, and that includes lobbying and influencing the outcomes of scientific studies. It's worth scr…

[deleted]

Re: Sugar industry influenced researchers and blamed fat for CVD (2016)

#489

Post by brodouevencode »

themk wrote: post #427
nomel wrote: post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there is a strong correlation between saturated fat consumption and CVD Reference? Many of the old studies have been proven flawed and, no surprise, corrupt [1]. Recent studies seem to suggest that it's only linked for some people. Disclaimer: I am nearly uneducated with this topic, but find it increasingly hard to trust anything nutrition related, where big money is involved. [1] https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/artic…

I really wish people would stop sharing that article as if it means anything. Nina Teicholz is not who you should be getting your science from. Her views are not the scientific consensus. She is not a scientist, she is a journalist with an agenda. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nina_Teicholz

Neither should we have trusted Ancel Keys, but here we are

Re: Sugar industry influenced researchers and blamed fat for CVD (2016)

#490

Post by delichon »

aldarion wrote: post #486
majkinetor wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is not correct. People lose fat on calorie restricted diet. How will you get to it, either by counting them or by improving metabolism or by changing insulin levels, is a different thing. Vegan or keto diet can both be calorie restricted, as much as any macronutrient mixture. However, it doesn't mean its sustainable. If you are hungry all the time, you can stay on the diet for some time, but not forever. Since i…

Thing about the keto diet is that "hungry all the time" simply... doesn't happen. In fact, bigger problem for keto dieters tends to be being satiated all the time and consequently undereating. "Hungry all the time" is actually vegan thing, but plants have so few calories and pass through so quickly that vegans end up being skinny despite eating literally all the time.

I think it's an adequate-good-quality-protein-consumption thing rather than a keto specific thing.
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