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I'm returning my Framework 16

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Re: I'm returning my Framework 16

#481

Post by andreashaerter »

INTPenis wrote: post #125

As a long time Linux user I only recently tried my first framework (12), and shortly after got the 13 too because I realized that this is the laptop for me. I wish I had realized it earlier. But it's so refreshing as a linux user to use a laptop actually designed for linux, and have everything work so great out of box like battery and wifi. Sure I've always used Laptops famously Linux-friendly, but it was still hit o…

I've been using ThinkPads with Linux since the T410, T420, T430, T480s, and several others. For me, they've consistently delivered an "everything works out of the box" experience with Ubuntu and/or Fedora, including things like SmartCard readers. I'm currently on a Lenovo X13 Gen 6 (AMD), and the only component that required any tinkering was the 5G WWAN due to FCC unlock issues (see: https://github.com/lenovo/lenovo-wwan-unlock/issues/68 ).

One thing many people don't realize is that some Lenovo models can be ordered with Fedora pre-installed. That's a pretty strong signal for Linux compatibility.

I've been watching Framework for years, and among my Linux-using colleagues we have ThinkPads, Frameworks, and Tuxedo machines, so comparisons are easy. I really want to like Framework, but recurring firmware issues, noise (!!), and the lack of built-in 4G/5G antennas have pushed me toward Lenovo every time. That said, I do like the modular idea. I even use a small USB-C adapter permanently to protect the port from wear, almost all docking/monitor issues I've seen over the years came down to worn cables or ports. In that sense, Framework's modules are genuinely appealing.

Re: I'm returning my Framework 16

#482

Post by nachopa »

pjmlp wrote: post #406
nachopa wrote: post #403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>about a couple of decades ago, there would have been immediate and sharp backlash if any hardware manufacturer pulled the tricks that they do today - soldered-on RAM modules, thermoplastic glue instead of screws, riveted keyboards, irreplaceable ICs... That's when this trend started, with Apple's Macbook Pro leading the way, winding up one of the best-selling consumer laptop brands by targeting incoming college fres…

Apple did not start anything. PCs are the odd ones, all other 8 and 16 bit home computers were vertically integrated, most expansions were done via external buses connected into one of the sides, usually the back or right side. With the race for thin margins at any cost, if anything thanks to Apple, is that OEMs realised going back to Spectrum, C64, Amiga, Atari ST kind of hardware designs payed off in their bank acc…

My point was that soldered RAM and lack of upgradeable components didn't inspire much of a backlash back then. It led to Apple dominating the higher end of the consumer laptop market.

Re: I'm returning my Framework 16

#483

Post by bobbob27 »

comte7092 wrote: post #8

I appreciate the authors thoughtful review here, but I can’t help but be frustrated by the constant lack of understanding of the core value proposition of framework both in this post and in many comments here on hn. Frequently the author brings up that for 2,000 euros they expect a premium experience, but no where is there an evaluation of the value granted by upgradability and repeatability of the machine, and only…

By all accounts the Framework 14 hits the balance well, feeling basically like any other premium metal laptop. Maybe based on that reputation alone, the author decided to buy the 16.

But the 16 is meant to be a chonky desktop replacement with a giant GPU enclosure on the back. Just by virtue of what it is, it's never going to feel very nice.

The author's other option to buy being a MacBook tells me they neglected to do their research on what they were buying.

What they really wanted was a Framework 14! It basically IS a MacBook with replaceable components and full repairability.

Re: I'm returning my Framework 16

#484

Post by bobbob27 »

justin66 wrote: post #440
jimmaswell wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some people around me prolesytize these modern Macbooks endlessly but I don't quite get it. I've tried them but I still love my Framework 16 to bits and I'd take it any day of the week. The Macbooks are great machines, and one thing I can say in their favor is the battery life is phenomenal, but I prefer my Framework's aesthetics and feel - it feels more like I'm holding something I've worked on and made my own vs ju…

> the keyboard and trackpad are just as good The keyboard on my framework 13 is fine but it’s got a very sketchy touchpad and that classic symptom of a modern, shitty laptop: the whole thing flexes if I pick it up by the corner, and oftentimes actuates the trackpad button. Other times if I’m sitting in an unfavorable position the machine flexes and the trackpad button no longer works. Compare that with the rigidity o…

Framework 14 is the original (and best tbh). The 13 and 16 unfortunately don't hit the balance of feeling premium like the 14 does. This thread has me wondering if they really diluted their reputation with these new devices...

Re: I'm returning my Framework 16

#485

Post by kassner »

makeitdouble wrote: post #458
brachkow wrote: post #404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Laptops are compared to other laptops availiable on market. Apple sells a entry line of their premium laptops at 1000$. And these are VERY good laptops.

Setting aside opinions about the product, the first 16" mac is around 2849 euros in the EU https://www.apple.com/be-fr/shop/buy-mac/macbook-pro/16-pouc...

The MacBook Air 15” costs €1399, doesn’t sound too economical to pay double the price for the extra 0.9”

Re: I'm returning my Framework 16

#487

Post by _cenw »

ixci wrote: post #385
IshKebab wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See at this point you're boycotting a company for supporting a developer who wrote a favourable book review of someone that has unproven and controversial but absolutely not fringe views about transgender issues that you disagree with. > I wouldn't be around if this was policy where I live If what was policy? Higher thresholds for mental health diagnoses? Cancel culture isn't a good thing, left or right.

[flagged]

You can believe whatever bioessentialist crap you want as long as you leave us alone.

Re: I'm returning my Framework 16

#488

Post by _cenw »

dzikimarian wrote: post #405
_cenw wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Out of curiosity - which laptop did you buy then? If "one of the open source projects supported by this company has lead who says controversial things on Twitter" is too much, I'm afraid you may have troubles finding one.

A Framework 13. I haven't replaced it yet.

And you missed the point. I believed in the "mission" of Framework. That was my primary motivation to buy one. But their stance here is not compatible with that. So I may as well buy a product that has more practical upsides for me. You know, when I actually have to replace my 7840U. Probably not anytime soon.

Re: I'm returning my Framework 16

#489

Post by pjmlp »

nachopa wrote: post #482
pjmlp wrote: post #406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple did not start anything. PCs are the odd ones, all other 8 and 16 bit home computers were vertically integrated, most expansions were done via external buses connected into one of the sides, usually the back or right side. With the race for thin margins at any cost, if anything thanks to Apple, is that OEMs realised going back to Spectrum, C64, Amiga, Atari ST kind of hardware designs payed off in their bank acc…

My point was that soldered RAM and lack of upgradeable components didn't inspire much of a backlash back then. It led to Apple dominating the higher end of the consumer laptop market.

Which was already the way on 8 and 16 bit home computers, for the most part if you wanted an upgrade you would buy the newer model.

The exception being PC clones.

Re: I'm returning my Framework 16

#490

Post by ragall »

ahachete wrote: post #399
ragall wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do realise you can upgrade RAM and SSDs, as well as replace most components on ThinkPads too, right ?

"Most components" seems a bit of an understatement when compared with the Framework. Sure, some components can be replaced. And not at the same cost (opening and manipulating the Framework vs the ThinkPad). But not all, like the motherboard. I may have built multiple dozens of computers in my life, so it's not that I'm new to this world.

Replacing the motherboard is just not an important thing, and that's demonstrated by how Framework has remained a very niche product.
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