Roc Camera
481–490 of 491 posts
Re: Roc Camera
#482Earlier quoted context omitted.
I wasn't trying to make a "ship has sailed"-argument, but rather the argument that going after photography is odd given how little we care about surveillance and data collection that is far more invasive, complete and dangerous. If this were an optimization problem (optimizing for privacy and reducing criminal behavior), going after people who take pictures in public wouldn't even be on the radar. It isn't even a rou…
I don't think we have anything close to diametrically opposed views, for the most part. When it comes to following lines of reasoning to absurd conclusions though, in the other direction, don't we end up in a world where it is everyone's right (private or public for that matter) to surveil everyone at all times the moment they step outside? Isn't that something you have an issue with? An extension of the existing pro…
Even published works didn't have the reach and accessibility they have today. Today even your random mobile phone snaps could make it onto newspaper front pages around the globe in a matter of hours -- even minutes. Or someone might be able to find them after doing a search even if they were published to what the creator thought was a limited audience.
So I think we have to be aware that although we, in most western countries, have had the right to take pictures of people in public spaces for a bit more than 100 years, some fundamental things have indeed changed. It isn't exactly the same thing anymore and we have to acknowledge that.
However, we also have to acknowledge that there are degrees when it comes to infringing on someone's privacy. Someone shooting pictures in the street doesn't immediately qualify as "surveillance". Yes, the picture may land online and yes, it may turn up when you perform searches. But I think calling it surveillance is bordering on arguing in bad faith.
Surveillance is surveillance.
If we allow the argument that all capture of images or video is surveillance to pass without drawing attention to the use of misleading and loaded wording, we might end up eroding practices that are extremely important. Imagine, for instance, how difficult news coverage of important events would be if we were to ban any and all filming or photographing of people in public spaces without their consent. ()
You might argue that this is taking things to an extreme, but it actually isn't. It is a problem we deal with already. Covering the actions of law enforcement has always been difficult, and just in the last few months in the US, it has gotten a lot worse. A good example is coverage of the Pentagon right now, where only those who have signed away their rights to truthfully cover what they see and hear have access.
Which means all of us are now less informed and less able to develop informed opinions and make informed choices.
Some might argue that "journalists" are a different "class of observer" that is to be afforded more freedom, but this gets us into even more trouble. Again, what happened at the Pentagon represents a very concrete example. You do not want there to be a special class of people who are specially licensed to observe and communicate "the truth" -- as that license can be used to dictate what "truth" they report.
() Filming or photographing newsworthy events isn't without its moral dilemmas. I used to photograph demonstrations because they provide opportunities for capturing visually interesting images of people. The more intense the demonstration, the more interesting images you could get. However, the more polarized and angry a society gets, and as the risk of government overreach increases, the more you run the risk of endangering people taking part in protests by taking their picture. The last few protests I've observed first hand (having my camera with me), I've actually not taken any pictures. Because I didn't feel it would be advisable to publish the images (so I might as well not take any). I'm probably not alone in this. Which is bad news both because we have to fear for people's security, but it also makes protests less effective.
Interestingly, the national broadcasting service in Norway chose to broadcast the Charlie Kirk funeral live. However, there was nearly no coverage of the "No Kings" protest that gathered 7 million people in the US. Most people here may have heard of it, many have not, and there exists exactly zero "iconic" defining images of it. Which means that it is almost as if it didn't happen. There are no memorable images of it in the public consciousness over here. Not one. Only bland pictures of crowds that fail to hold anyone's attention. There were at least half a dozen far more compelling pictures and clips of the Charlie Kirk funeral.
So on one hand you could argue that privacy was, in some sense, respected. On the other hand you could also argue that as an instance of political speech, it was far less effective than one would have assumed when 7 million people take to the streets.
Re: Roc Camera
#483Earlier quoted context omitted.
There's legally usually quite a big gap between what pictures you can take of people, and how you can publish them. In places where you don't have a reasonable expectation of privacy, you can generally be photographed. But there are significant limits to how such pictures can be published (including social media).
The law doesn't matter much if someone is convicted in the public square by intentionally misrepresented (or even just context-collapsed) images of them going viral to a global audience at Internet speed. By the time the law, or the terms and conditions of social networks, catches up, the damage is already done.
The former was a relatively small event broadcast live. The latter was a huge protest involving more people than the populations of some small countries. However, their media footprint was very different.
The No Kings protest produced no iconic visuals and was rapidly forgotten by international media. It had considerably less staying power than, say, the arab spring. Arguably because there existed no compelling visuals. It might as well have been a small protest of 100k people for the footprint it occupies in international consciousness.
The Charlie Kirk funeral, on the other hand, produced half a dozen memorable images that circulated for weeks.
It bears thinking about.
Re: Roc Camera
#484Earlier quoted context omitted.
I find the combination of "pictures of strangers" and "our right to take pictures" rather concerning. I have a different perspective, as I am blind. But I was always uncomfortable with having a picture taken of me by basically a stranger. And that feeling didn't just come with social media. It always was there. I disagree that you have a "right" to take pictures of strangers. IMO, you shouldn't have that right. It is…
While I agree with you that publishing a picture of a person without their consent ought to be illegal, I as an individual with very unreliable memory and one who’s always doubting my perception of reality, I heavily rely on modern technology and strongly believe that personal recording of any kind is my right, it being simple augmentation of my senses that allows me to live happier and more fulfilled life.
Here's an exercise you can do. Go to a library and look at books by photo journalists who have covered poverty, conflict, disaster etc. There are many, many iconic photographs that helped shape our view of the world, and not least, contributed to making us aware of what was going on. From Dorothea Lange's work in the 1920s covering poverty and suffering in the US, to photographers covering everyday life, and reporters covering anytihing from famine to war.
Now ask yourself how many of the subjects in those photos signed releases or otherwise had an opportunity to give consent.
Should we erase this history? If not, why should the subjects in those photos have fewer rights than people should have today? If so, why?
Before you think that something should be illegal you have to think about what that would actually mean.
Re: Roc Camera
#485Earlier quoted context omitted.
I find the combination of "pictures of strangers" and "our right to take pictures" rather concerning. I have a different perspective, as I am blind. But I was always uncomfortable with having a picture taken of me by basically a stranger. And that feeling didn't just come with social media. It always was there. I disagree that you have a "right" to take pictures of strangers. IMO, you shouldn't have that right. It is…
I find it strange how people consider taking pictures of strangers as some basic right. Here in Germany, people have a right to their own image. You can't just photograph strangers. You can photograph a crowd at a public event but you can't zoom in on one specific stranger. Also you can photograph people that are of public interest. Maybe it is me who is biased but I find these rules quite reasonable. It protects bot…
Re: Roc Camera
#486I used to be really (really really) into photography. I respect anyone working hard on a physical product, but this misses the mark on every front I can think of. The real issue that photographers grapple with, emotionally and financially, is that pictures have become so thoroughly commodified that nobody assigns them cultural value anymore. They are the thumbnail you see before the short video clip starts playing. N…
>Nobody has ever walked past a photograph because they can't inspect its digital authenticity hash. This has rapidly changed over the last few months. As more and more pictures/videos going viral on social media are AI-generated [0, 1], real pictures/videos of remarkable things are increasingly falsely called out as AI-generated [2]. People are definitely starting to care, and while the toy camera in the linked artic…
Re: Roc Camera
#487Earlier quoted context omitted.
You can get things printed onto a transparency mounted in a slide frame. Actual slide film, though, must be done by exposing light. When you want another image put onto a slide, the easiest way to do it is to just take a picture using a camera. That’s beside the broader point that OP made: it doesn’t matter since you can just point a verifiable camera at a staged scene (or reproduction of an AI image) and have an ima…
>You can just point a verifiable camera at a staged scene It's an emerging field, and attack vectors like that are hurdles to be solved. You can make faking more difficuly, for example, with a depth sensor.
Using cryptographically signed photos is not even new, most of the major camera manufacturers are offering it, or are working on offering it at this point. The reality is that even with things like sensor depth data proving that a scene is in 3 dimensions, you are still able to manipulate the actors in a scene, still able to selectively include or exclude elements, still able to pick the image that seems to show something that it doesn't, still able to editorialize in a text description of a scene etc.
The time-proven solution for this is to rely on institutional reputation. While every news source has had lapses, I am far more likely to trust the reality and neutrality of, say, the AP over Fox News regardless of the presence of a signature.
Disclosure: I used to freelance for the AP as a photojournalist.
Re: Roc Camera
#488Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think real photography is sort of like archery, you know, in the moment, feeling it, release at the right time, to capture that. I think in a sense of the candid street, or Magnum photogs. That kind of spirit. And that is innately satisfying and a fun way to engage with the world around you. :)
Even "unreal" photography can be like that . My phone may do all of the mechanical work + post-processing, but framing, angle, foreground/background and capturing just the right moment is just as much fun (well, for me anyway).
Re: Roc Camera
#489I am actually willing to support DIY camera efforts, but if you're semi-serious about taking pictures, this just wouldn't work. First, Raspberry Pi (I'm guessing this is a CM4/CM5) is a disaster for a camera board. Nobody wants a 20s boot every time you want to take a picture, cameras need to be near instantaneous. And you can't keep it on either, because the RPi can't really sleep. There are boards that can actually…
Since USB Armory supports pinning multiple keys for secure boot (and IIRC protected storage), you could even deliver it set up with a manufacturer attestation key and allow the user to load and pin their own attestation key (useful for an organization like a news company) as well as allowing "dual boot" between the attested firmware signed by the pinned manufacturer key and the user's own firmware. I've wanted that kind of behavior in consumer hardware for a long time, where you have full freedom between using the locked down OEM environment or your own and switching between them freely.
(I assume the USB Armory might also not be ideal in terms of ability to sleep and boot speed, etc, but if you have a quicker smaller controller that's the main board then it could wake the one that supplies attestation and make that functionality available after it's done booting)
Re: Roc Camera
#490I don't think ZK proofs help to establish trust in a photo's authenticity at all. C2PA is a well thought out solution to this problem. https://spec.c2pa.org/specifications/specifications/2.2/spec... > The C2PA information comprises a series of statements that cover areas such as asset creation, edit actions, capture device details, bindings to content and many other subjects. These statements, called assertions, make…
They absolutely must define a much stricter mode that actually means something, and distinguish it from what they have now (which is essentially prototype level in terms of security model)