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Andrej Karpathy – It will take a decade to work through the issues with agents

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Re: Andrej Karpathy – It will take a decade to work through the issues with agents

#481
post #420

I find it strange AGI is the goal. The label AI is off and irrelevant. A language model is not AI, even a large language model. But language models are still extremely useful and potentially revolutionary. Labelling language models as AI is both under and overstating the value. It's not AI (insert sad trombone), but that doesn't mean it's amazing technology (insert thunderous applause).

This terminology is confusing. Historically, AI was always used to mean any kind of machine intelligence, including the most basic novice chess AI, or an image classifier, or a video game character's AI. Now a lot of people seem to be using it as a synonym for AGI - a human-level intelligence.

Re: Andrej Karpathy – It will take a decade to work through the issues with agents

#482

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m curious do ultramarathoners feel the same way about the rest of the race past 20 miles?

I've heard it claimed that an ultramarathon is fundamentally a different experience because while it definitely requires excellent physical stamina, it has a large mental component to it, as well as a much bigger focus on nutrition. Very different sort of race, I guess.

there are multiple cycles from highs to lows and back and then typically a larger dominant split similar what was discussed here for the marathon but scaled to the distance.

Re: Andrej Karpathy – It will take a decade to work through the issues with agents

#483

I always get a weird feeling when AI researchers and CS people start talking about comparisons between human brains and AI/computers Why is there a presumption that we (as people who have only studied CS) know enough about biology/neuroscience/evolution to make these comparisons/parallels/analogies? I enjoy the discussions but I always get the thought in the back of my head "...remember you're listening to 2 CS major…

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Re: Andrej Karpathy – It will take a decade to work through the issues with agents

#485

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's a view that suggests that language is intelligence. I think you find the limits when you dig in. What are you calling language? Can you really say that Eliza doesn't meet your criteria? What about a more advanced version? I mean we've been passing the Turing Test for decades now. > That language is a requirement for understanding. But this contradicts your earlier statement. If language is a requirement the…

> It is the condition where a person does not have an internal monologue. These people are just nutjobs that misinterpreted what internal monologue means, and have trouble doing basic introspection. I know there are a myriad of similar conditions, aphantasia, synaesthesia, etc. But someone without internal monologue simply could not function in our society, or at least not pass as someone without obvious mental dimin…

I know some of these people. We've had deep conversations about what is going on in our thought processes. Their description significantly differs from mine.

These people are common enough that you likely know some. It's just not a topic that frequently comes up.

It is also a spectrum, not a binary thing (though full anendophasia does exist, it is just on the extreme end). I think your own experiences should allow you to doubt your claim. For example, I know when I get really into a fiction book I'm reading that I transition from a point where I'm reading the words in my head to seeing the scenes more like a movie, or more accurately like a dream. I talk to myself in my head a lot, but I can also think without words. I do this a lot when I'm thinking about more physical things like when I'm machining something, building things, or even loading dishwasher. So it is hard for me to believe that while I primarily use an internal monologue that there aren't people that primarily use a different strategy.

On top of that, well, I'm pretty certain my cat doesn't meow in her head. I'm not certain she has a language at all. So why would it be surprising that this condition exists? You'd have to make the assumption that there was a switch in human evolution. Where it happened all at once or all others went extinct. I find that less likely than the idea that we just don't talk enough about how we think to our friends.

Certainly there are times where you think without a voice in your head. If not, well you're on the extreme other end. After all, we aren't clones. People are different, even if there's a lot of similarities.

Re: Andrej Karpathy – It will take a decade to work through the issues with agents

#486
post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We should completely strip all this talk from AI as a field (and get rid of that name as well). It just causes endless confusion, especially for general audience. In the end, the whole shtick with LLMs is that we train matrices to predict next tokens. You can explain this entire concept without invoking AGI, Roko's basilisk, the nature of human consciousness, and all the other mumbo jumbo that tries so hard to make t…

But people love misguided narratives and analogies. How else should we kill time when we are to dumb to accelerate inevitable progress and just need to wait for it?

How else do we invite ludicrous amounts of malinvestment from wall street than to evoke fields of biology we know literally nothing about?

Re: Andrej Karpathy – It will take a decade to work through the issues with agents

#487
One inherent limitation of current LLM/AI is that they are primarily trained on abstracted data that focuses primarily on mimicking our logical and reasoning prefrontal cortex portion of the mind. However most humans make decisions based on activity in the limbic regions of the brain which are essentially emotional and intuition based. So we often will do something before we actually know why we did it, however to maintain a sense of self and sanity we will then use our prefrontal cortex to create a cohesive narrative on why we do what we do (despite it often being inaccurate).

In a nutshell we are mimicking neural activity in a certain region based on certain abstracted data which is quite removed from how we as humans process reality.

Re: Andrej Karpathy – It will take a decade to work through the issues with agents

#488

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. Someone way back when decided to call them neural networks, and now a lot of people think that they are a good representation of the real thing. If we make them fast enough, powerful enough, we'll end up with a brain! Or not.

I wish McCulloch and Pitts could see how much intellectual damage that wildly bold analogy they made would do. (though seeing as they seemingly had no qualms with issuing such a wildly unjustified analogy with the absolute paucity of scientific information they had at the time, I guess they'd be happy about it overall).

Computational neurons were developed with the express intent of studying models of the brain based on the contemporary understanding of neuroscience. That understanding has evolved massively over the last 7 decades and meanwhile the concept of the perceptron has proven to be a useful mathematical construct in machine learning and statistical computing. I blame the modern business culture if software development more than I blame dead scientists for the misunderstanding being peddled to the public.

Re: Andrej Karpathy – It will take a decade to work through the issues with agents

#489
post #58

I would bet all of my assets of my life that AGI will not be seen in the lifetime of anyone reading this message right now. That includes anyone reading this message long after the lives of those reading it on its post date have ended. Which of course raises the interesting question of how I can make good on this bet.

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