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Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

cnbc.com

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Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#481

Post by Doxin »

scotty79 wrote: post #459
daan-k wrote: post #454

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some new information has just emerged in the Dutch press. According to a just published article by the NRC newspaper [0], the owner wanted to use Nexperia's funds to finance another business (WingSkySemi) which was in financial trouble. He would have done this by making Nexperia place large orders for wafers it did not need. The article mentions Nexperia only requiring $70-80 million in wafers, while Nexperia would h…

Seems like business as usual. It's just that the industry it operates in is kinda sensitive subject for everybody right now.

To be clear the specific intervention used here is very rare. It's really not business as usual, but it's also not nation state shenanigans luckily. Just regular old grift.

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#482

Post by clarionbell »

Reading this discussion, I can't help but feel a somewhat odd narrative:

"This is hypocrisy! How dare they do to chinese what they criticize chinese for?"

Followed by:

"They always did that. The west was always trying to subvert rules they didn't like!"

And finally:

"The west made these rules to work for them and them only!"

That repeats in various variations, over and over.

Here is my take. The only conclusion from this, is that everyone was dishonest, everyone is dishonest, and we should stop trying to even pretend that we could be more honest. All wrongs are equal, there is no difference between a dictator and inept president. There is no difference in intent, purpose or long term goal. Freedom is just a word, it doesn't exist. Truth is abstract concept, without meaning.

I don't know about you, but I don't think I can subscribe to that.

Instead, I would side with NL government on this. Because there is such a thing as lesser evil. Call me a hypocrite, if you'd like, but at least I'm consistent.

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#483

Post by AnthonyMouse »

mightyham wrote: post #477
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #452

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's have a quick recap of two of the things we've already tried: Isolationism sucks. You have a domestic industry but it's not allowed to sell to other countries in retaliation for you doing the same to them, so it's small and consolidated and when the domestic providers are correspondingly terrible the trade barriers inhibit you from using the foreign ones. "Free Trade" (but not actually) is even worse, because yo…

I don't see what the meaningful difference is between trade barriers (assuming by that you mean tariffs) and tax incentives for specific industries. Moderate, targeted tariff policies, especially ones that gradually decreased over time, can achieve the same effect of bolstering domestic industry while still allowing a healthy amount of foreign competition.

If a domestic industry is only surviving because of tariffs then it will lobby to keep the tariffs high and for the tariffs to be effective in sustaining the domestic industry they'll have to be enough to deter domestic consumers from patronizing foreign competitors when domestic producers are lacking. That means domestic customers get screwed and domestic companies don't have the incentive to improve as long as they can successfully lobby for continued tariffs.

If you only provide subsidies then consumer prices go down rather than up because the mechanism of operation is for the subsidies to make the domestic supplier more attractive rather than for tariffs to make foreign suppliers less attractive. Meanwhile the subsidy is paid by the government and then the legislators will be trying to keep it down rather than raise it because it reduces the money they have to spend on other things rather than increasing tariffs which do the opposite.

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#484

Post by andsoitis »

DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #419
motorest wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> free for me but not for thee That's rich, coming from a country which outright bands foreign corporations from even operating within their borders, and those who they allow have to operate through a state-controlled corporate minder.

And then you actually go to China and are shocked to realize that Western companies and brands are everywhere. Starbucks and KFC on every other corner. Tesla, Volkswagen and BMW cars clogging the roads. Rich people wearing Italian luxury brands, middle-class people wearing Nike and Adidas athleisure wear. China is nothing like your paranoid fantasy.

China’s foreign investment framework is formally open (especially after WTO accession), but:

- Certain industries are restricted or prohibited for foreign investors.

- The “Negative List for Foreign Investment” explicitly bans or limits foreign participation in many areas (e.g., media, education, data services, telecoms, mining). - Some sectors require a Chinese joint venture (you can’t have 100% ownership).

So even though the law allows foreign entry, policy barriers and regulatory discretion make it hard in practice.

To use your example of Volkswagen, their ownership in China is structured around several joint ventures, where it shares ownership with Chinese companies like SAIC Motor, FAW Group, and JAC Group. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAIC_Volkswagen

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#485

Post by RobotToaster »

meekaaku wrote: post #410
cies wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China never claimed it's markets were free to enter by foreigners. US/EU did. If tit-for-tat is our policy, then we should at least be upfront about it and enshrine it in law, instead of using some ancient law to slap China with: that's arbitrariness.

Reducing/eliminating those mandatory joint ventures were a requirement for China to join WTO. But in practice it delayed these reforms.

Then someone should take the case to the WTO Appellate Body(0), unfortunately Trump and Biden have blocked appointments to it since 2019, so WTO rules cannot be enforced.

(0)https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appellate_Body

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#486

Post by wjSgoWPm5bWAhXB »

onetimeusename wrote: post #285
itopaloglu83 wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everybody is a fan of free access and capital markets, until a foreign entity purchases something of importance. It’s a continuation of recent trends and closing markets. Nobody in their sane mind would allow a company like ASML or the likes to be purchased by competitors. But the irony is that when a non-European entity were to do something like this, e.g. nationalize their oil or mining etc. industry or a firm, the…

That has happened and not a lot came of it. Venezuela nationalized American oil projects under Hugo Chavez. If by hell breaking loose you mean law suits I guess so.

Also, no hell broke loose when Argentina nationalized YPF.

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#488

Post by AnthonyMouse »

andsoitis wrote: post #479
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #452

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's have a quick recap of two of the things we've already tried: Isolationism sucks. You have a domestic industry but it's not allowed to sell to other countries in retaliation for you doing the same to them, so it's small and consolidated and when the domestic providers are correspondingly terrible the trade barriers inhibit you from using the foreign ones. "Free Trade" (but not actually) is even worse, because yo…

> What we should be doing isn't going back to trade barriers, it's creating sufficient tax incentives to sustain a domestic industry for strategically important products and then letting other countries do the same and consumers choose which company they want to buy it from. Trade happens because not a single country has or can produce all the (strategically important) products it wants, without trading with others.

Entities the size of the US or the EU are capable of producing most or all strategically important products internally, and then trade still happens because not all products are strategically important. Or because e.g. people in the Northeast buy oil from Canada because it's closer to them than Texas, even if both countries have that industry.

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#489

Post by brazukadev »

mns wrote: post #462
brazukadev wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is funny that there are more people blaming China than the shareholders that made trillions of dollars.

I don't think people are blaming China. You can see this from all the extremist movements in Europe. People are blaming politicians and the "elite". They gave away for free all the technological advancements and knowledge to China to make huge profits and become filthy rich, and now they complaining that no one is buying their expensive outdated cars and other goods that people can't afford because they don't have de…

What do you mean by the "elite"? By the way you put it, it looks like the people that got filthy rich with this schema were the politicians but we all know they are just foot soldiers of the corporations.

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#490

Post by RobotToaster »

consumer451 wrote: post #384
immibis wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a country - it's a collection of individual billionaires. Each billionaire involved in these kinds of deals gets richer, and has no reason to care about anyone else.

Yes, but we’ve apparently chosen to run our country in such a way.

"we" never got any say in the matter.
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