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Corporations are trying to hide job openings from US citizens

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481–490 of 571 posts

Re: Corporations are trying to hide job openings from US citizens

#481
post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s interesting that the U.S. picked an employer-driven model, which effectively outsources immigration selection to firms. That’s efficient for demand-matching, but it concentrates bargaining power in ways that a points-based model avoids. The practical effect of an H1-B is to act as a non-compete, punitive termination clause, and a time bounded employment contract. These are very expensive terms to ask for in conv…

That's right. It is in fact advantageous in many ways for companies to prefer H-1B, they have far more control over those workers than they would over americans. They can even be worse than an american and you would prefer it if you were the type of employer who prioritizes control of their workforce over excellence.

H1-B are supposed to be skilled enough that losing their job isn't a problem due to combinations of skill levels, skill combination rarity, and connections.

The fact that your statement is a truth indicates a problem with the program.

Re: Corporations are trying to hide job openings from US citizens

#482
post #450

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're reading too much into it. It's a case of bad UX. The jobs do not exist. The actual job application/interview etc. happened years ago, when it did exist, and everyone, including locals, had the same shot at it. When the job existed, someone was hired for it, and it happened to be someone on a visa. In order to keep that person employed in this job and get them a green card, the government requires that the job…

That is not a UX issue, that is blatant immigration fraud my man. The reason they are required to readvertise is because the visa they are on is for jobs that cannot be filled by a local , so if the job can actually be filled by a local, that person should lose the visa and have to leave (or find another job that supports them being here). That isn’t a technicality, except the prior admins allowed it to be. Does that…

You do not know enough about immigration and are spewing falsehoods.

First, a visa is not permission to stay in the U.S. A foreigner can have an expired visa and a valid status to be in the U.S. (they can take their time at their leisure to apply for one). Conversely they can have an unexpired visa but no permission to be in the U.S. (such as when they have a H-1B visa but is actually unemployed for a long time).

Second, this entire process of advertising fake job openings is not at all related to visas, H-1B or not. It's related to the employment based green card process. Hiring an H-1B requires a Labor Condition Application from Department of Labor, not a Permanent Labor Certification. The former does not require any attempt to hire American workers.

Third, even if some Americans apply for these fake job openings, that doesn't mean that foreigner must leave. After all, the foreigner still has valid H-1B status (see first point). It's a setback to their green card process only.

Fourth, whether or not the job can be filled by a local is determined by the company. Sure such determination will need to be submitted to the government for approval. Imagine that the company requires 10 years of experience with Ruby but the local has 9 years of experience. Guess whether the company will see this local as qualified? There's no good way to solve this problem. Companies can require whatever skill and experience they want in their job requirements. The government doesn't determine whether the job requirement itself is sensible. It just checks that no locals satisfy the job requirement. Do you get the point now? Companies can construct the job requirement however they want such that the job cannot be filled by a local. Companies are not abusing any law. Companies are exercising their right to choose qualifications for the jobs.

Fifth, you say "sucks for the unemployed locals" but there is no requirement for companies to check that the local applying is currently unemployed. This is not a joblessness reduction program. Maybe the locals who are applying are just switching jobs, in which case if they succeed their old employer loses a headcount. There's no net change in employment figures. The law doesn't care.

Next time before you spew falsehoods on HN, spend an afternoon learning about H-1B, LCA, PERM, EB-1, EB-2 and such topics. Before you accuse companies of committing fraud, consider whether the law actually allows what the companies are doing and whether it is the law that should be changed. Considering directing your anger from prior administrations to Congress instead.

Re: Corporations are trying to hide job openings from US citizens

#483
post #439

Earlier quoted context omitted.

why did it work out that way in the US?

During WWII there were wage freezes so employers started providing benefits: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/05/upshot/the-real-reason-th... > In 1942, with so many eligible workers diverted to military service, the nation was facing a severe labor shortage. Economists feared that businesses would keep raising salaries to compete for workers, and that inflation would spiral out of control as the country came out of t…

Once more the most rational economic system has to be shepherded away from spontaneously destroying itself

Re: Corporations are trying to hide job openings from US citizens

#484
post #439

Earlier quoted context omitted.

During WWII there were wage freezes so employers started providing benefits: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/05/upshot/the-real-reason-th... > In 1942, with so many eligible workers diverted to military service, the nation was facing a severe labor shortage. Economists feared that businesses would keep raising salaries to compete for workers, and that inflation would spiral out of control as the country came out of t…

Hysterical raisin?

Sorry, just a silly misspelling of "historical reasons" I picked up once upon a time...

http://www.catb.org/esr/jargon/html/H/hysterical-reasons.htm...

Re: Corporations are trying to hide job openings from US citizens

#485
post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That seems like a fair way for the free market to address things, no? If you need special carve outs, create a new type of Visa for those special cases. The immigrants are all going to be paying taxes on their earnings. If you can boost H1B salaries by an average of $20k/yr by doing a price auction, that brings govt revenue and maybe even gives opportunities to balance the budget by creating more H1B slots.

Can we really consider it the free market when there are already so many regulations in place?

I don't think the "free" in free market is supposed to mean no rules. I think the "free" is supposed to mean both sides of the transactions get to choose to participate or not which means they are pressured to "meet in the middle" and optimize for mutually beneficial deals. The idea is that this is going to provide better outcomes than trying to plan out what everyone makes and buys from the top.

Overregulation can reduce the effective freedom in a market (usually by increasing costs or reducing choice) but good regulation is there to shepherd this equilibrium of a fair deal between buyers and sellers by doing things like getting externalities priced in (if youre buying x you should pay the cost of x, not your neighbor); preventing monopolies, cartels, other price fixing / choice reducing things that makes one side of the market not have to meet in the middle; and adding standards or visibility so market participants can be more efficient and safe when choosing (instead of having to do things like research all of a company's supply chain and employees to decide if it's safe to eat there or to fly in their planes).

Some things get imposed onto the market intentionally like protection for unions (in theory an alternative/shortcut to grouping up into inefficient passthrough companies), tarrifs to give someone an advantage in what they can offer, subsidies to intentionally prevent the market from contracting to the current size of demand (like if the country wants to maintain a certain ability to produce food or doctors or certain goods), and government programs to effectively set a floor on the price of something (like interest rates so lending/borrowing will never be worse than a certain mark).

All these things are useful tools in a market of self motivated actors trying to maximize their own gain in the short term but, like all tools, they get abused and out maneuvered often so it's a constant game of cat and mouse to keep the system running.

Pros and cons all over the place; most things have a huge downside of vulnerability to truly bad actors having too much control (which is where the idea of democracy comes in but I have to stop myself I already word dumped).

tl;dr yes absolutely call it a free market until people are forced to participate too much

Re: Corporations are trying to hide job openings from US citizens

#486

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've noticed this as well, but see it mostly as "A players hire other A players, B players hire C players". The top tier of Indian execs/management that I've met will hire diverse teams, just like the top tier of every other ethnicity will as well. There's simply not enough people at the top to put a racial/ethnic/caste filter on it. But then once you get down to the second tier, people will happily hire people like…

That’s extremely racist to assume that Indian execs are all D tier or worse.

While I understand your bias to read that, please, read again.

Re: Corporations are trying to hide job openings from US citizens

#487

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does the US have such a shortage of artistic talent we have to hire abroad for it?

AI literally produces more mesmerising art, for pennies, than an artist ever could, because their whole shtick was "out-there visual concepts", which was a wide open space of anything that's "not normal", which now and AI can pump out copiously. Artistic talent is not important.

Lol. This one isn't landing as well for me as your other troll comments.

Re: Corporations are trying to hide job openings from US citizens

#488

Corporate crimes punishment is a real joke in the US. Meta/FB was fined a couple of million dollars for the same type of violations of temp work visa. I'm sure, it didn't even register on their bottom line. We need to put execs behind bar, before they'll ever respect labor or competition laws.

I agree. Corporations excel at finding ways to disperse authority and accountability to do illegal things, sometimes intentionally, sometimes simply by letting the natural corporate incentives play out -- "oh, look, this department didn't fully understand the situation"... to which the follow up question is "Ok, but _who_ designed the departments? They seem pretty good at maximizing profit, so why can't they also manage to comply with the law?"

Re: Corporations are trying to hide job openings from US citizens

#489

Old news. This has been going on for decades. If you even look badly on youtube you will find corporate videos from "HR Consultants" teaching companies how to bury job listings so noone will be likely to find them. Your country sold you down the river 30 years ago.

> Your country sold you down the river 30 years ago. Jm2c but I think the harsh truth is that US while having a decently sized population of good software engineers, it is still nowhere near the required amount. Thus, many companies would rather give 150/200k to someone who's actually good at it and will be impressed by that money rather than some half assed US graduate who only went into SE because he wanted a cushy…

This is a sorry excuse. If companies were required to hire American students, they would have a strong incentive to foster the development of American talent. It would not be a problem.

> Thus, many companies would rather give 150/200k to someone who's actually good at it and will be impressed by that money rather than some half assed US graduate who only went into SE because he wanted a cushy well paying job.

The idea that Americans wouldn't fight tooth and nail for these jobs is just idiotic.

Re: Corporations are trying to hide job openings from US citizens

#490
We have already decided that we want to be a multi-cultural society in the US, so we impose immigration caps from each country. We should do the same from H1Bs. All of the smart people can't honestly be in just one or two countries. H1Bs should have their total limit also have a percentage allowed from a country requirement.
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