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Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

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Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#481

Post by drstewart »

vanviegen wrote: post #69
mettamage wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Growing up in suburban California I was basically in an outdoor prison until I could drive. Having grown up in the Netherlands and having a decision to make where we want our kids to grow up (US spouse), this feels painful to read. I suppose the SWE salaries aren't worth it. Also this is one of the best towns to cycle in the Netherlands: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-TuGAHR78w&ab_channel=NotJu...

It seems like those comfy US coastal salaries usually buy you either: - A largish house in the subs, and a nice car that you'll be seeing a lot of, unfortunately. - A tiny house closer to work. While European SWE salaries are significantly lower, they can generally buy you a decent house close to work.

Really interesting, can you share the salaries, cost, and size of three high-paying jobs in: NYC, London, and Paris? Curious about the big houses you're getting for cheap in London and Paris!

Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#482

Post by rcpt »

oldjim798 wrote: post #300
okdood64 wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for this. This is precisely my issue with public transport in the US (granted my experience has only been in SF, Oakland, NYC and Chicago). It’s emotionally taxing when you need to keep your guard up all the time. I can’t even imagine how much worse it would be on someone if they had kids to tow around as well.

How is driving not emotionally taxing the exact same way? Driving with my kids is fucking terrifying. I have 2 under 6, and I have to lock them into these giant car seats to keep them safe (to be clear I like modern car seats, their designs just remind me how vulnerable kids are). Every time I go through a intersection I worry what happens if someone runs the red and smashes into our side. I no longer speed when I dr…

And when they get a bit older you need to stay in the house all day trying to keep them off the worst parts of the Internet because cars have completely destroyed kids freedom

Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#483

Post by lo_zamoyski »

gspencley wrote: post #115
silvestrov wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Car oriented people seriously underestimate how many people that can be transported in a subway train and how much highway space it would take to transport the same number of people in cars. One subway line can transport more people than even the widest existing highway. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Passenger_Capacity_of_dif... (edit: spelling)

From an efficiency point of view public transportation makes a lot of sense. From a quality of life point of view, I have never been comfortable being crammed into a sardine can with that many other people. I've done it. I've never enjoyed it. I do look forward to travelling to the Netherlands one day and I will enthusiastically use public transit there just as a personal experiment to see if my experience differs en…

The trouble is that your personal hangups are not compatible with a properly functioning city and the common good. There is no general, indiscriminate right to car ownership and use in the city; "discomfort" is not an especially compelling reason to permit it. So, in the city, someone with your "discomforts" must either accept the discomfort of public transit, or consider living elsewhere. (For the record, no one enjoys being packed in a train. They just deal with it, because there are superior competing goods and because it's preferable to the shitshow of living in a city mired in traffic and jammed with cars.

Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#484

Post by drstewart »

baby wrote: post #161

I'm always wondering how Americans feel traveling to Europe and being able to walk in cities. It must be so surreal that they either have to move, or they can't fathom that these cities are practical to live in.

It's not surreal at all, and most Americans marvel at how tiny and unliveable the houses are.

Europeans must marvel at being able the size of living accommodations in the US. They can not even fathom in their brains what it's like not to be crammed into a tiny 20sqm flat.

Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#485

Post by hiddencost »

deltarholamda wrote: post #225
powvans wrote: post #10

This is really amazing to see trending on HN. I spent a couple days in Pontevedra this summer while walking the Camino de Santiago. It was absolutely delightful and what I experienced aligns with the article. The old town was filled with wide streets almost exclusively for walking, cafes and restaurants that sprawled into plazas, and people young and old enjoying the car free public space. It was one of the first sto…

>Where it exists you can see that there is tremendous demand for it. Everybody loves public transit until they get panhandled for the jillionth time, or they witness (or experience) violence, or some other anti-social behavior sours the whole thing. I spent some time in NYC during the Giuliani years, after the city did a lot of work cleaning it all up: stopping turnstile jumpers, removing graffiti, more police, etc.…

[dead]

Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#486

Post by rcpt »

deltarholamda wrote: post #394
Fricken wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My daily bicycle commute takes me right through the heart of my city's homeless district, and like with many cities things have gotten a lot worse since COVID. Cars are far and away the biggest threat to my safety, and the source of all the harrassment I receive while out in public. I mean, every now and then some guttersnipe blurts out incoherencies at me, but that's not something to be afraid of. I regard driving,…

Do you have a wife? Kids? Would you let them bicycle through the homeless district? I don't get hassled either, but it's not about me. My job as a husband and father is to protect my family.

"wife I forbid you from traveling on that road"

Do you have a wife?

Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#487

Post by oldsecondhand »

deltarholamda wrote: post #225
powvans wrote: post #10

This is really amazing to see trending on HN. I spent a couple days in Pontevedra this summer while walking the Camino de Santiago. It was absolutely delightful and what I experienced aligns with the article. The old town was filled with wide streets almost exclusively for walking, cafes and restaurants that sprawled into plazas, and people young and old enjoying the car free public space. It was one of the first sto…

>Where it exists you can see that there is tremendous demand for it. Everybody loves public transit until they get panhandled for the jillionth time, or they witness (or experience) violence, or some other anti-social behavior sours the whole thing. I spent some time in NYC during the Giuliani years, after the city did a lot of work cleaning it all up: stopping turnstile jumpers, removing graffiti, more police, etc.…

The problems you mentioned are policing and welfare problems, both things that America sucks at.

Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#488

Post by Saline9515 »

Gud wrote: post #367

Writing this on a tram in Zürich. At this hour(peak hours) they depart ever 2-3 minutes or so. Walking distance is 50 meters. It feels great. Now let me hear your objections to why public transport could never work at your location

Public transport usually requires a medium-to-high density to be sustainable. However, it can get saturated - in Paris, the subway and the trams are full for long periods during the day, even at midnight! It makes the experience really unpleasant when you have no alternative.

Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#489

Post by lm28469 »

xnx wrote: post #109
lm28469 wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have 4 supermarkets in a 10 min walk radius, to reach one of them I don't even need to cross a single public street. Same for schools, I know of 3 in my street, there are probably more but as I don't have kids I wouldn't know. I think you missed the entire point, it's a design choice, if you design everything around cars of course going grocery shopping will require a car... my supermarkets don't even have parking…

> it's a design choice Yes. Americans chose big houses and yards.

Plenty of big houses with yards in the surburbs in European cities, almost exclusively actually, and very often cheaper than much smaller flats in the city centers. They're still connected to the public transport system too.

Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#490

Post by philipallstar »

sensanaty wrote: post #385
philipallstar wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Subways are great for high-bandwidth routes. Cars are great for everything. It's like wifi vs cat6.

That's only true because of car-centric design, not a rule of the universe. We can easily make public transport the better transport option if we wanted to. Yes, going to bumfuck nowhere will be more efficient by paving 800 miles of concrete, but by definition most people are in urban centers, and there's no reason you can't have cities that are human-friendly while still having cars as options for the people that ne…

Well, in the Netherlands it's also very flat, which makes enabling cycling there a much smaller achievement than anywhere else, except possibly Vatican City. Now we have battery-powered bikes more things are accessible for more people, but the clock starts now for those places.
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