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US reportedly forcing TSMC to buy 49% stake in Intel to secure tariff relief

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Re: US reportedly forcing TSMC to buy 49% stake in Intel to secure tariff relief

#481

Post by cmurf »

arathis wrote: post #476
nosignono wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It has nothing to do with stupidity. Stop painting people as idiots because they exist in one of the most information hostile environments in human history. This isn't some natural state that's unrecoverable. The people you describe have been given a highly addictive media environment tailor made to engender outrage and drive behavior. It shouldn't be a shock when most people cannot resist it. The first step to chang…

I’m not in the US, so I don’t know what it’s like from the inside but from the outside it’s so comically obvious how straight up stupid and brazen trump and his cronies are that it beggars beleif. How can so many be so gullible?

It’s a cult.

But also, they’re being misled. Most non-Trumpers coddle, forgive in advance, and invite Trumper friends and family to the usual social functions. This is permission. It’s helping everyone normalize the depravity.

In a very real way there’s no conversation happening because one party has removed themselves from rationality and the other party has broadcast they don’t care.

There will need to be enormous amounts of pain to get either party to snap out of it.

Re: US reportedly forcing TSMC to buy 49% stake in Intel to secure tariff relief

#482

Post by rvba »

Fade_Dance wrote: post #42
dismalaf wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, this is a win-win for TSMC. Intel isn't dead. They've made some bad choices and investments but they're still huge. They have $30 billion in gross profit per year on an utterly boring, non-hype based business model. Get rid of some dead weight, write off the bad investments, improve their foundry business and their value easily grows multiples of what it currently is. On top of it already being a shrewd bus…

Intel is not profitable. They have negative eps and negative free cash flow. The cash flows from existing products can't be considered in isolation. If their R+D and Capex investments stopped, the sum total of the existing+legacy cash flows wouldn't nearly cover Intel's substantial liabilities. They also have 50 billion dollars in debt, and their cash flow situation has gotten so desperate that slices of future fab r…

The previous CEO had a plan. You could agree with the plan or disagree with it.

Current CEO has no plan, sabotaged the idea of last one and cries on twitter. Not a good outlook.

TSMC can just wait Trump out.

Re: US reportedly forcing TSMC to buy 49% stake in Intel to secure tariff relief

#483

Post by rvba »

throwup238 wrote: post #202
phkahler wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Does it really matter? Does TSMC have a choice either way? Sure. Go home and make chips. Pass the tarrif costs on to customers. Would US customers have a choice?

EUV was developed with in a Cooperative Research and Development Agreement between the US Department of Energy, Intel, ASML, and so on - giving Congress control over who ASML sells the EUV technology to. So yes, US companies do have a choice. They can lobby Congress to cut off TSMC from their main hardware and parts supplier entirely, crippling it altogether, except for their Arizona plant which is ripe for nationali…

EU-based company can ignore USA same way USA ignores everyone else now.

Re: US reportedly forcing TSMC to buy 49% stake in Intel to secure tariff relief

#484

Post by FirmwareBurner »

alfiedotwtf wrote: post #130
neves wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

USA spends more in their military than the rest of the world combined. Also the only country which used nuclear weapons of mass destruction. You must fear them.

[flagged]

>Europe’s trade negotiators will outclass Trump’s B-Team

Eu has no leverage over the US in such neoglaciations, especially with Russia next door. That's why Ursula folded like a deck chair to Trump otherwise Trump's tariffs would have tanked EU manufacturing sector.

Re: US reportedly forcing TSMC to buy 49% stake in Intel to secure tariff relief

#485

Post by cmurf »

LexiMax wrote: post #442
nosignono wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It has nothing to do with stupidity. Stop painting people as idiots because they exist in one of the most information hostile environments in human history. This isn't some natural state that's unrecoverable. The people you describe have been given a highly addictive media environment tailor made to engender outrage and drive behavior. It shouldn't be a shock when most people cannot resist it. The first step to chang…

> The people you describe have been given a highly addictive media environment tailor made to engender outrage and drive behavior. It shouldn't be a shock when most people cannot resist it. Although I also take issue with labeling people "stupid," I also take issue with the blanket assumption that people are victims of the media environment. Both take away people's agency in their own way. Instead, I'll ask this unco…

Absolutely there is a strong component of cognitive dissonance: the truth hurts, lies are soothing.

The truth? They do not care about basic right and wrong. They voted for a rapist, a felon, a vile insurrectionist. There’s no morality and we know this based on how they’ve voted.

But also the unwillingness by their friends and family to call them out promotes non-accountability. For everyone.

Re: US reportedly forcing TSMC to buy 49% stake in Intel to secure tariff relief

#486

Post by ethbr1 »

dmix wrote: post #420
ethbr1 wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The meta of Trump mercurialness is convincing counterparties they should do whatever they can to make him happy, even on unrelated matters. I think it's a braindead, 4th-grade way to run international negotiations, but it is a way.

People will forever take every bluff and proposition at face value though so it gets exhausting following online discourse, where everyone is trying to rationalize it at face value or spinning it into some grander conspiratorial geopolitical scheme. Doesn’t seem to matter how many times the outcome is dramatically different than the starting point with Trump, people want to believe and that’s what Trump hopes they do…

Exactly. I've made the case before that while it may be a temporarily winning approach in business (aside from becoming persona non grata with most banks' risk departments), it's a losing strategy in international geopolitics.

Because counterparty countries will still exist, you'll need to make future deals, and they'll remember the last time you fucked them over.

Re: US reportedly forcing TSMC to buy 49% stake in Intel to secure tariff relief

#487

Post by rvba »

sct202 wrote: post #177
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They want to ensure that TSMC doesn't have a controlling stake.

The remaining 51% would be highly fractured unless it was like the US government on the otherside. One of the publicly traded companies I worked at effectively got taken over with <20% of regular shares by an activist billionaire.

The 51% would be controlled by the few people from funds, who live in USA - and who are easy to "influence"

Re: US reportedly forcing TSMC to buy 49% stake in Intel to secure tariff relief

#488

Post by FirmwareBurner »

A_D_E_P_T wrote: post #13
FirmwareBurner wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see how it can't work at least short term, when the US is by a long margin the world leading military and economic power. Why else has the US been overspending on military for decades and planting military bases and nuclear submarines all over the world, to become the world hegemony, if not to bully everyone in doing its bidding when push comes to shove? I'm not defending the actions of the US, I'm just askin…

> I don't see how it can't work at least short term, when the US is by a long margin the world military and economic power. The 90s were ~30 years ago. American economic and military capacity ain't what they used to be, and alienating your allies and friends is starting to look like a poor strategy.

>The 90s were ~30 years ago. American economic and military capacity ain't what they used to be

You're totally wrong about this when you look at the numbers. EU's economy was on par with the US about 20 years ago. Now it's only half the size of the US.

Re: US reportedly forcing TSMC to buy 49% stake in Intel to secure tariff relief

#489

Post by lotsofpulp »

cyphertruck wrote: post #215
phkahler wrote: post #38

On the surface, buying 49 percent of Intel wouldn't infuse the company with any capital. It would just bail out investors.

It actually wouldn't. The sale price will be pretty close to the current market price, maybe %10 more. If the Government kicks in funds to underwrite the deal (say a loan to TSMC) then the deal would likely happen exactly at market price. That means investors who sell are getting the current low market price or a little bit higher--- they will still be down the massive amount. This is really bailing out current manag…

>If the Government kicks in funds to underwrite the deal (say a loan to TSMC) then the deal would likely happen exactly at market price.

If you need taxpayers to make a deal happen, then it is not happening at market price, by definition.

Re: US reportedly forcing TSMC to buy 49% stake in Intel to secure tariff relief

#490

Post by robertlagrant »

wat10000 wrote: post #449
geysersam wrote: post #444

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that's not true, why would it be? Tariffs are paid by someone in the supply chain. It's not obvious that the payer is in the importing country.

They are paid by the importer. It’s possible those costs will be passed along with higher prices, but you can’t really pass costs back .

Of course you can. Competition means exporters can lower their prices to help mitigate the tariffs in order to beat their competitors.
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