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The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

english.elpais.com

481–490 of 824 posts

Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#481

"Following his reasoning, it cannot be stated in absolute terms that an iPhone 15 is of “better quality” than a 2003 Nokia." This statement suffers from either viewing the past through rose-tinted glasses or from total cultural relativism in the most pejorative sense. I'm not sure about 2003, but around 2009, I owned a Nokia N900, which was arguably the flagship Nokia phone at the time. I can confidently state that c…

I owned a Nokia in 2003. The battery lasted a week and they were virtually indestructible. The phone never crashed or reset, the keys were so reliable and well placed that I could text without looking at the screen. The phone did not get slower with age. None of these things can be said about my current smart phone. Granted it does a lot more, but the quality of the things it does do is much worse.

My Nokia in 2003 didn't last a week. As a teenager I was on AIM on that thing constantly. The battery lasted maybe a day or two when I was actually using it a good bit.

The battery lasted a week when a week's worth of usage was a dozen messages and an hour of call time with the rest the phone is locked and dark.

Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#482

Airplane tickets used to cost a lot more for economy class, even adjusted for inflation and fees. To get the equivalent service and quality today you simply have to pay more, you just have the choice of paying very little for very low quality because there’s more flights and more planes. https://www.aei.org/carpe-diem/even-with-fees-the-miracle-of... Same can be said for most electronics and even clothes. I’m not say…

> Same can be said for most electronics and even clothes. I’m not saying that a high price label guarantees high quality, just that the spectrum of cost vs quality has broadened, even within big name brands. Electric Kettles - Microwaves. The components that make up the actual boiling of water are now standard and all come from the same chinese manufacturer. You can pay $20 to $1000 for the same thing. The expensive…

My electric kettle may use the same basic heating components as most cheaper ones, but I paid extra to get one where the entire container is one piece metal — practically a tall cooking pot with a heater element built in under it, a water safe connector to a base station that’s connected to power, and a handle and lid.

It’s easier to clean, has no plastic in contact with the water, and has so far lasted me 14 years. It cost 800 NOK instead of the ~400 for a typical plastic one. But due to my experience with those in the past, I’d say absolutely worth it.

Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#483

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Both Communism and Socialism are failed ideologies. Millions dead. Geez, seriously? The most successful societies in the world and human history have combined aspects of capitalism and socialism. A market based economy with social constructs that just provide better lives for people than pure capitalism would. Examples are not just the often-cited nordic countries. Germany, France, even the U.S. in its not-so-dista…

The Nordics are highly capitalist economies with mostly private ownership of the means of production. The usage of "socialism" here is misguided. Public programs including healthcare != Socialism or Communism.

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Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#484

Can we discuss food packaging a bit? What's better -- often food packaging has clever ways to be resealable so you can use it without letting your food get stale. What's worse -- the above is combined with "make it as thin as possible to not fall apart before it gets home. Quite frequently... I try to carefully open a resealable package, and completely shred it ruining the part that is supposed to reseal. I imagine t…

Here's a dirty little secret.

These companies are so fine tuned that they notice a 0.05% drop in revenue. Don't like what they do. Don't buy it and see if they change.

If they change something and you vote with your cash they notice. The biggest lie is that you don't matter because you're statistically insignificant. If you believe that they lose 0.005% vs 0.05%.

For better or worse look at Bud Light. The customer is always the opinion they listen to. 50% loss in profits or 0.5% this gets blamed on someone ultimately and they tend to revert unpopular decisions when they're not related to regulatory changes.

Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#485

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Many comments here are arguing that quality has actually gone up over the past decades. Yes, many people confuse technological development with quality improvements. Technology can improve quality, but it can also be used in other ways. My personal view is the west, especially North America, never recovered from the oil crisis of the early 1970s. Prior to that energy was almost seen as disposable, at least compared…

> Prior to that energy was almost seen as disposable Turns out that from an environmental perspective, that view was bad anyway and I'm glad it's gone for good (even if the AI hype almost makes us forget that again). I don't fully see how that implies everything having to be crap now. Lighter doesn't mean worse quality.

> Lighter doesn't mean worse quality

For a number of product categories it means replacing solid metal parts with inferior materials, and that pretty explicitly does mean worse quality.

Have you used a 1960s KitchenAid mixer? They look almost identical to models that followed - but in the 1970s KitchenAid replaced the metal drive gear with one made of nylon on the consumer-focussed models, and now if you use one heavily, you'll have to replace that gear more or less annually.

Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#486
post #297
post #83

Most things are still available at the same quality your parents remember, thanks to ecommerce much more avilable, but sadly also at a similar real price your parents remember which we find extortionary by comparison to all the cheap crap flooding the market. You can have a tailored suit/shirt, hardwood furniture, grass-fed beef, vacuum to last decades, etc, but it will cost around the same in real terms and you're u…

> Most things are still available at the same quality your parents remember Just no. The old reputable brands are enshittifying the same way. I’ve multiple times seen it first hand, with brands like Levi’s and Fjällräven. One year of wear is enough to disform the textile entirely. The fabric from those older clothes are still sturdy and whole, with only discoloration at the folding spots. No holes either from decades…

Uniqlo has a vertically integrated Japanese supply chain, including custom textiles. Their clothing has been relatively consistent.

Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#487

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There really isn't anybody with state ownership of the means of production. It's hard to find anything to make a comparison to. Communism would have its own reasons for declining quality: the lack of an individual profit motive. The hope would be that you would no longer be alienated from the products of your work, but that never came close to happening. So if you were referring to China... they are the world's forem…

Communism has been tried many times always with severe quality issues. But my point isn't just about communism. You have to run a different argument for mercantilism, command economies, mixed economies, barter economies, etc. The fact that people have historically tried devaluing currency for as long as they've had currency suggests that there's a force that favors attempting to sell inferior goods without decreasing…

> This is the same logic by which communists called socialists who believed in democracy "fascists". It's just an attempt to excommunicate people from the church if their interpretation is different from yours.

I mean, China is second only to to the US in minting new billionaires. Sure, gatekeeping and no true Scotsman are real things, but at the end of the day so are definitions. I don't see any definition of communism that allows for the private acquisition of billions of dollars of private capital.

Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#488
Creativity and competence have become a commodity in the eyes of the modern management. Employees are headcount and customers are blood bags to bleed until there’s nothing left. Each and every one is an economic unit to mobilize and squeeze.

And when creativity and competence are commodities, companies expect they can replace creativity and competence with another SaaS platform or another vendor who'll do the dirty work. Companies don’t dare hire new graduates and train them. They don't try to educate them on how to build and maintain things while preserving the fresh thinking that comes with youth and inexperience. Those days are gone because the MBA wizards have decided long term investment, investment into an industry or one's community, is bad business.

The pied pipers of modern business thinking openly encourage “minimum viable” as the secret to success. “Minimum viable” is only a a fly’s eyelash from “not viable”. That results in “nearly not viable” schlock filling the shelves anywhere things are sold.

Modern business philosophy is literally that, for years, we’ve made things too good. That thinking infects every level of business, from development to manufacturing to service and support. Companies instruct their teams and vendors to fly as close to the sun as possible. They use words like “agile” and “lean” and “efficient”, when in most cases they are just using those words to wallpaper over shoddy work.

And because the way we used to do things is always wrong, companies hire one “consultant” after another poisoning the well with this garbage. The need for “consultant” help never ends, as the real money in consulting is in prolonging problems.

When all of that outsourcing, outsourcing of thinking and outsourcing of actual production, doesn’t adequately insulate the decision makers from accountability, companies embrace “big data” and decision committees and auditors and anything else that shields the org chart from real scrutiny. Companies refuse to trust anyone who actually has their ear to the ground in favor of some artificial signal discerned from the mountain of white noise collected from inconsistent and uneven sources. Nobody trusts the prophet in their own hometown, but the prophet from the next town is an oracle.

All of that, coupled with a consumer market that is neither educated nor savvy enough to discern quality and unwilling to pay for what quality actually costs, results in the sorry state we are experiencing. This can't sustain.

Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#489

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most 2020s cars are completely unaffordable or overpriced and over engineered but maybe by 2040s this will be largely solved. The 2010s was peak car.

Since 2018 every new car needs a rearview backup camera. Since 2022, AEB's been included, too. Fuel economy and emissions standards are also considerably stricter than they were 10 years ago. The list goes on, and on, and on. I think it's completely fair to say we haven't gotten worse at making cheap cars, we've just legislated them out of existence.

exactly, the list just goes on and on and on

Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#490

Airplane tickets used to cost a lot more for economy class, even adjusted for inflation and fees. To get the equivalent service and quality today you simply have to pay more, you just have the choice of paying very little for very low quality because there’s more flights and more planes. https://www.aei.org/carpe-diem/even-with-fees-the-miracle-of... Same can be said for most electronics and even clothes. I’m not say…

But I don't want the equivalent service. I want the cheapest ticket possible to get me from A to B. And apparently most people agree with me, or that's not what they would be selling. This is the opposite of a problem.

That’s why there’s now a broader quality spectrum of plane tickets.

I travel seldomly, but when I do I tend to buy business class, because I value the comfort of the journey more than the frequency of journeys. But most other people, including you, have other priorities. Which is why at least in this example I think it’s a market working well based on supply and demand.

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