Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors” • Hacker News Board

Re: Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors”

#481

Post by torlok » Sun, Jul 20, 2025, 10:28 AM UTC

ericmay wrote: post #382

torlok wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this a US thing? I stay at hotels from time to time across Europe, and I always pay a fixed price either when booking or at arrival for the whole stay. Never had to enter credit card information anywhere, and I never would precisely for this reason. I put my credit card information once when booking a car at an airport and was scammed with random scratches being found at return. Can't imagine ever going through th…

No, it's a common practice in most western countries and can confirm for you a list of a dozen or more hotels ranging from $100/night to $1000/night that do this in countries ranging from Ireland to France to Japan. It's really no big deal and is extremely common. In fact, France as I discovered does this at the gas stations where they put $200 or so authorizations on your card for absolutely no good reason. There ar…

The rental experience has everything to do with payment. With a credit card, a person has to prove they shouldn't have been charged by a corporation, and without, the corporation has to prove a person should be charged. That's a massive difference. It blows my mind how people think putting down a credit card is normal. You're basically giving somebody access to your money to be used at their leasure.

Re: Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors”

#482

Post by torlok » Sun, Jul 20, 2025, 10:32 AM UTC

rconti wrote: post #391

torlok wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this a US thing? I stay at hotels from time to time across Europe, and I always pay a fixed price either when booking or at arrival for the whole stay. Never had to enter credit card information anywhere, and I never would precisely for this reason. I put my credit card information once when booking a car at an airport and was scammed with random scratches being found at return. Can't imagine ever going through th…

No, it's not. I just checked into 6 hotels across 5 countries in both Eastern and Western Europe last month, and every single one needed a tapped physical credit card for a deposit on top of my pre-paid booking (sometimes via booking.com, sometimes direct with the hotel). I can't remember ever NOT having to leave a CC for a deposit in any hotel I've ever stayed at in any country in my life. I'm sure it's happened, bu…

It's like we live in a different reality. I check into hotels every year in Europe for business trips and vacations. I book through sites like booking.com, I pay ahead via my bank, I don't give my debit card information, and I don't own a credit card.

Re: Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors”

#483

Post by Workaccount2 » Sun, Jul 20, 2025, 11:25 AM UTC

dreamcompiler wrote: post #460

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a cop out. What's the point of a brand if quality control is all over the place? Most McDonald's are franchises, and they famously give very similar experiences wherever you are. Not identical, obviously, but a Big Mac is a Big Mac. This is absolutely on Hyatt corporate. They should have policies regulating these types of detection systems.

McDonalds is a real estate company, not a hamburger company. Corporate often owns the land the restaurant sits on and they charge the franchisee rent. I presume they could raise the rent or kick the franchisee out if they fail to live up to the required standards. I don't know that other franchise operations have the degree of corporate control that McDonalds has. https://www.wallstreetsurvivor.com/mcdonalds-beyond-t…

I hate seeing this repeated because it is plainly untrue despite being technically true.

An attention grabbing headline that feels smart but is really just careful half-truth writing.

McDonald's chargers fees that are a percentage of a stores gross sales and rent that is usually a base fee plus a percentage of sales.

What they are actually doing is folding part of the food sales cut into rent so they can evict you if they don't like you.

So while "McDonald's is actually a real estate company" gets clicks, the truth is they are a hamburger company with a huge cash flow from selling burgers, which they funnel through "Rent" for control. They also do own a ton of commercial real estate, but they aren't cashing out on that.

Re: Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors”

#484

Post by loloquwowndueo » Sun, Jul 20, 2025, 11:44 AM UTC

tedivm wrote: post #380

loloquwowndueo wrote: post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are chargebacks useless now since they usually lead to being banned from that provider/vendor? Do a chargeback for a scammy App Store app, get your 1k smartphone bricked and your emails locked out?

It's always been the case that if you refuse to pay a bill the other party can refuse to do service with you.

Well the whole premise here is that the bill was incorrect, so why would I pay it as-is? And the billing party refused to adjust it, this is why I had to resort to a chargeback.

Partial chargebacks would be an interesting concept in this case.

Re: Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors”

#485

Post by ericmay » Sun, Jul 20, 2025, 12:08 PM UTC

torlok wrote: post #481

ericmay wrote: post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it's a common practice in most western countries and can confirm for you a list of a dozen or more hotels ranging from $100/night to $1000/night that do this in countries ranging from Ireland to France to Japan. It's really no big deal and is extremely common. In fact, France as I discovered does this at the gas stations where they put $200 or so authorizations on your card for absolutely no good reason. There ar…

The rental experience has everything to do with payment. With a credit card, a person has to prove they shouldn't have been charged by a corporation, and without, the corporation has to prove a person should be charged. That's a massive difference. It blows my mind how people think putting down a credit card is normal. You're basically giving somebody access to your money to be used at their leasure.

> You're basically giving somebody access to your money to be used at their leasure.

Well, it’s the issuing banks money, not mine. At the end of the day the process ends up the same. If I tell the credit card company to pound sand on a charge I disagree with they send me a bill and then send it to collections.

If I tell the rental car company to pound sand, they send me a bill and send it to collections.

You actually have more power and leeway when using a credit card because if there are enough disputes or issues then the rental agency can be banned from access to the network. If you pay with cash there’s nobody else involved.

The credit card is even better because if you dispute a charge and have evidence you have someone on your side against the rental agency.

Even with all that being said, it’s worth getting a few thousand or so bucks/year back in cash back on the off chance something like this happens while you continue to pay full price for everything you buy.

Re: Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors”

#486

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Jul 20, 2025, 12:10 PM UTC

lxgr wrote: post #159

octo888 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Careful what you wish for. What you may get in one hand they'll take in another. They're pulling other crap like cleaning fees for a grain or two of sand too. Should the EU our saviour protect us against that? Plenty alternatives to renting a car in Europe. Hit them where it hertz. Take a punt on smaller companies that are competing with eg total all inclusive insurance. Yup they're a bit more expensive sometimes but…

Yes, laws should generally protect consumers against predatory business practices, even if it affects the businesses' bottom line. I'd rather be charged a bit more upfront than to see mystery charges showing up on my card after I check out or return a car in the same condition I received it. Allowing this type of stuff to go unpunished also just hurts honest businesses and distorts the market, since in travel search…

[deleted]

Re: Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors”

#487

Post by octo888 » Sun, Jul 20, 2025, 12:12 PM UTC

lxgr wrote: post #159

octo888 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Careful what you wish for. What you may get in one hand they'll take in another. They're pulling other crap like cleaning fees for a grain or two of sand too. Should the EU our saviour protect us against that? Plenty alternatives to renting a car in Europe. Hit them where it hertz. Take a punt on smaller companies that are competing with eg total all inclusive insurance. Yup they're a bit more expensive sometimes but…

Yes, laws should generally protect consumers against predatory business practices, even if it affects the businesses' bottom line. I'd rather be charged a bit more upfront than to see mystery charges showing up on my card after I check out or return a car in the same condition I received it. Allowing this type of stuff to go unpunished also just hurts honest businesses and distorts the market, since in travel search…

They'll just find another to screw you but if you like to believe in the coordinated game of cat and mouse actually does any fundamental and long term good, you do you

Re: Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors”

#488

Post by RandomBacon » Sun, Jul 20, 2025, 2:01 PM UTC

jnsie wrote: post #368

lxgr wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their "NoiseAware" main product line also sounds incredibly dystopian. Apparently, that's a "privacy-safe" microphone listening in rental properties, to "detect crowds gathering"...!? This type of creepy stuff, together with Airbnb's horrible business practices (last time they wanted access to my checking account transaction history via Plaid!) and enabling scammy hosts, is why I'm back to just staying at regular hot…

That reminds me - we're staying in an Airbnb later this summer and I've been meaning to research gadgets to detect hidden cameras. Now I guess I need to look out for microphones too. We're going in quite the dystopian direction.

Unless you get a nonlinear junction detector, I'm not sure any other device works as well. I remember seeing a news piece where they pay someone to plant a bunch of cameras, and the reporter tries a bunch of different devices and still misses some.

https://hackaday.com/2017/09/20/spy-tech-nonlinear-junction-...

It would be nice if someone could make them and sell them cheaply. I would buy into that Kickstarter.

Re: Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors”

#489

Post by sigseg1v » Sun, Jul 20, 2025, 2:05 PM UTC

danpalmer wrote: post #447

jwr wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am amazed that hotels are still stuck in this old mindset of charging exorbitant amounts to some customers (unpleasant to customers) rather than providing a good service to all customers (good for customers). If I knew that a hotel chain will have my room fridge stocked with beer at reasonable prices (small markup or even no markup, because this does not need to be a revenue stream!), I would pick that hotel every…

The problem is that renting rooms is pretty low margin. Hotels typically need to pull up the average margin with addons like this to make the business worthwhile.

Is it though? Just checked for hotels 3 star and up in my city, 1 month out, 1 bed, and it's $314 per night for the cheapest one. I have a hard time believing that if I stay here for 2 or 3 nights and pay them $1000 that they are barely scraping by on this.

Re: Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors”

#490

Post by Macha » Sun, Jul 20, 2025, 2:12 PM UTC

jplrssn wrote: post #330

Macha wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ironically, despite the company being called the Royal Mail, the letters it delivers are referred to as "post". This is unlike the US Postal Service, which delivers "mail".

Interesting! Thanks.

To be clear, mail and post are the same thing, one is US English and the other UK English, though as you can see from the names of the companies involved, the distinction was not always so clear cut.

The comment claiming not to know what "mail" was clearly struck people as a little dismissive of US English (any native English speaker knows both "mail" and "post", regardless of which one is used locally)