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Measuring the impact of AI on experienced open-source developer productivity

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Re: Measuring the impact of AI on experienced open-source developer productivity

#481

It is 80/20 again - it gets you 80% of the way in 20% of the time and then you spend 80% of the time to get the rest of the 20% done. And since it always feels like it is almost there, sunk-cost fallacy comes into play as well and you just don't want to give up. I think an approach that I tried recently is to use it as a friction remover instead of a solution provider. I do the programming but use it to remove pebble…

More sinister is it then takes 80% of the credit.

Re: Measuring the impact of AI on experienced open-source developer productivity

#482
I believe the important and interesting take away of the paper of the paper is that so many developers thought they were going faster when they were actually going slower. This is especially striking when you consider that the study was not broad enought to capture long-term tech debt.

Re: Measuring the impact of AI on experienced open-source developer productivity

#483

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> LLMs, especially at the scale we see today The OP qualifies how the marketing cycle for this product is beyond extreme, and its own category. Normal people are being told to worry about AI ending the world, or all jobs disappearing. Simply saying “the problem is the user”, without acknowledging the degree of hype, and expectation setting, the is irresponsible.

AI marketing isn't extreme - not on the LLM vendor side, at least; the hype is generated downstream of it, for various reasons. And it's not the marketing that's saying "you're using it wrong" - it's other users . So, unless you believe everyone reporting good experience with LLMs is a paid shill, there might actually be some merit to it.

You have to be pretty native to think VC’s don’t astroturf forums and let random mobs steer discussions about their investments. Even dinosaurs like Microsoft have been caught doing exactly that many time. Including fake “letters to the editor” campaigns when newspapers were a thing

Re: Measuring the impact of AI on experienced open-source developer productivity

#484
post #38

Here's the full paper, which has a lot of details missing from the summary linked above: https://metr.org/Early_2025_AI_Experienced_OS_Devs_Study.pdf My personal theory is that getting a significant productivity boost from LLM assistance and AI tools has a much steeper learning curve than most people expect. This study had 16 participants, with a mix of previous exposure to AI tools - 56% of them had never used Curso…

I was one of the survey participants, and guessed the result so wrong that I could make a meme out of myself.

Re: Measuring the impact of AI on experienced open-source developer productivity

#485

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AI marketing isn't extreme - not on the LLM vendor side, at least; the hype is generated downstream of it, for various reasons. And it's not the marketing that's saying "you're using it wrong" - it's other users . So, unless you believe everyone reporting good experience with LLMs is a paid shill, there might actually be some merit to it.

You have to be pretty native to think VC’s don’t astroturf forums and let random mobs steer discussions about their investments. Even dinosaurs like Microsoft have been caught doing exactly that many time. Including fake “letters to the editor” campaigns when newspapers were a thing

My experience with web forums has been: everything a poster disagrees with is astroturf and bots, everything a poster agrees with is brave people speaking truth to power. I don't doubt that LLM companies are astroturfing comments just like I don't doubt that anti LLM people are sharing threads in their internal Discords and asking their friends to brigade a thread. Trying to infer conspiracy to invalidate an opinion on the Internet is fraught.

Re: Measuring the impact of AI on experienced open-source developer productivity

#486
post #60
post #38

Here's the full paper, which has a lot of details missing from the summary linked above: https://metr.org/Early_2025_AI_Experienced_OS_Devs_Study.pdf My personal theory is that getting a significant productivity boost from LLM assistance and AI tools has a much steeper learning curve than most people expect. This study had 16 participants, with a mix of previous exposure to AI tools - 56% of them had never used Curso…

Hey Simon -- thanks for the detailed read of the paper - I'm a big fan of your OS projects! Noting a few important points here: 1. Some prior studies that find speedup do so with developers that have similar (or less!) experience with the tools they use. In other words, the "steep learning curve" theory doesn't differentially explain our results vs. other results. 2. Prior to the study, 90+% of developers had reasona…

> Some prior studies that find speedup do so with developers that have similar (or less!) experience with the tools they use. In other words, the "steep learning curve" theory doesn't differentially explain our results vs. other results.

I think one would have to compare the difficulty level of tasks.

I speculate that on easy tasks, LLM's can do a great job based on their training data alone, so you'd experience a speedup regardless of your prompt engineering skill level. But on large codebases and for complex tasks, an LLM cannot stand on it's own legs, and the differentiator becomes the quality of the prompt.

I think you'd need not only expert programmers, but expert programmers who have become expert prompt engineers(you would need some kind of extensive system prompt describing how the large codebase works), and those don't really exist yet, I think.

Re: Measuring the impact of AI on experienced open-source developer productivity

#487

For certain tasks it can speed me up 30x compared to an expert in the space: https://rust-gpu.github.io/blog/2025/06/24/vulkan-shader-por...

This is very disingenuous: we don't know how much spare time Sascha spent, and much of that time was likely spent learning, experimenting, and reporting issues to Slang.

It's not disingenuous, we have his and my git commit logs. I also had to deal with issues with rust-gpu. He is an expert in both the space and his project, I had never seen his project nor written any graphics shaders before. You can never get apples to apples comparisons but this is the closest I have personally experienced.

Re: Measuring the impact of AI on experienced open-source developer productivity

#488
post #38

Here's the full paper, which has a lot of details missing from the summary linked above: https://metr.org/Early_2025_AI_Experienced_OS_Devs_Study.pdf My personal theory is that getting a significant productivity boost from LLM assistance and AI tools has a much steeper learning curve than most people expect. This study had 16 participants, with a mix of previous exposure to AI tools - 56% of them had never used Curso…

I find the very popular response of "you're just not using it right" to be big copout for LLMs, especially at the scale we see today. It's hard to think of any other major tech product where it's acceptable to shift so much blame on the user. Typically if a user doesn't find value in the product, we agree that the product is poorly designed/implemented, not that the user is bad. But AI seems somehow exempt from this…

Kubernetes. AWS. React. All have high learning curves to use effectively, hoardes of footguns, etc. But if you get over that curve, they can be fantastic tools with tons of value. LLM-assisted dev tooling is similar, in my view.

Re: Measuring the impact of AI on experienced open-source developer productivity

#489

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Greenfield is still such a tiny percentage of all software work going on in the world though :/

It’s a tiny percentage of software work because the programming is slow, and setting up new projects is even slower. It’s been a majority of my projects for the past two months. Not because work changed, but because I’ve written a dozen tiny, personalised tools that I wouldn’t have written at all if I didn’t have Claude to do it. Most of them were completed in less than an hour, to give you an idea of the size. Thoug…

I'm curious what kind of personalized tools you built?

Re: Measuring the impact of AI on experienced open-source developer productivity

#490
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Code reuse at scale: 80 + 80 = 160% ~ phi...coincidence? I think this may become a long horizon harvest for the rigorous OOP strategy, may Bill Joy be disproved. Gray goo may not [taste] like steel-cut oatmeal.

1.6x multiplier is low, we usually need to apply 5x

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